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What Empowered value gets multiplied?
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<blockquote data-quote="nhl_1997" data-source="post: 1739573" data-attributes="member: 22380"><p>Okay, I now agree that adjucating empower spell <em>strictly</em> based on the core rules, modifiers are added to the result before multiplying. My assumption that the <em>magic missile</em> example was simply incorrect came from my GM saying that empower spell was clarified in the 3.0 FAQ. Since I have no intentions of confirming or denying that statement and since others have stated on this thread that the FAQ did not clear it up, it's a bit presumtious of me to assume the example is mistaken.</p><p></p><p>For reasons stated above, I still feel that the multiplication should take place before adding on constant modifiers, but that would have to be a house rule.</p><p></p><p>Slightly off topic, going <em>strictly</em> by the example, an empowered <em>magic missile</em> with a caster level of 9+ maximizes at 35 damage rather than 37. The example essentially states (1d4+1)*1.5 <em>per missile</em>. This means that each missile is handled individually, and you potentially can lose a half-point of damage on each one.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Rebutting arguments made against my case....</p><p></p><p>Yes, improved toughness is better than toughness. Hence, the name includes <em>improved.</em> This has nothing to do with my argument.</p><p></p><p>Yes, widen spell also takes a slot 3 levels higher, and there are many instances where a different metamagic feat or none at all would be better than using widen spell. Similarly, repeat spell from <em>Tome and Blood</em> also takes a slot 3-levels higher. I'd certainly rather cast an extended <em>greater magic weapon</em> compared to a repeated one. Again, this has nothing to do with my argument.</p><p></p><p>Instead, part of my argument was based on the fact that <em>both</em> empower spell and maximize spell have the effect of increasing variable die rolls. Since maximize spell takes a slot 3-levels higher, empower takes a slot 2-levels higher, <strong>and</strong> both feats have the effect of increasing variable die rolls, empower spell should never, on average, be more effective than maximize spell. I'm not arguing that all +3 level metamagic feats should always be better than all +2 level metamagic feats.</p><p></p><p>By the way Dr_Rictus, thank you for defending my math skills <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nhl_1997, post: 1739573, member: 22380"] Okay, I now agree that adjucating empower spell [I]strictly[/I] based on the core rules, modifiers are added to the result before multiplying. My assumption that the [I]magic missile[/I] example was simply incorrect came from my GM saying that empower spell was clarified in the 3.0 FAQ. Since I have no intentions of confirming or denying that statement and since others have stated on this thread that the FAQ did not clear it up, it's a bit presumtious of me to assume the example is mistaken. For reasons stated above, I still feel that the multiplication should take place before adding on constant modifiers, but that would have to be a house rule. Slightly off topic, going [I]strictly[/I] by the example, an empowered [I]magic missile[/I] with a caster level of 9+ maximizes at 35 damage rather than 37. The example essentially states (1d4+1)*1.5 [I]per missile[/I]. This means that each missile is handled individually, and you potentially can lose a half-point of damage on each one. Rebutting arguments made against my case.... Yes, improved toughness is better than toughness. Hence, the name includes [I]improved.[/I] This has nothing to do with my argument. Yes, widen spell also takes a slot 3 levels higher, and there are many instances where a different metamagic feat or none at all would be better than using widen spell. Similarly, repeat spell from [I]Tome and Blood[/I] also takes a slot 3-levels higher. I'd certainly rather cast an extended [I]greater magic weapon[/I] compared to a repeated one. Again, this has nothing to do with my argument. Instead, part of my argument was based on the fact that [I]both[/I] empower spell and maximize spell have the effect of increasing variable die rolls. Since maximize spell takes a slot 3-levels higher, empower takes a slot 2-levels higher, [B]and[/B] both feats have the effect of increasing variable die rolls, empower spell should never, on average, be more effective than maximize spell. I'm not arguing that all +3 level metamagic feats should always be better than all +2 level metamagic feats. By the way Dr_Rictus, thank you for defending my math skills :) [/QUOTE]
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What Empowered value gets multiplied?
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