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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1536959" data-attributes="member: 5171">And?  Why is that bad?If it happens every time, and these "excellent roleplayers" feel that how they bluff is so unimportant that they just want to do it, then that says something about your campaign.  Is asking them, "How would you like to bluff them?" that difficult?  If it happens because the game is almost over for the night and they want to get inside, that sounds good.  Getting past a minor area in order to get to the big interesting bit before you all have to go home.(emphasis mine)I disagree.  I believe that 3e allows this kind of play.  Currently, the d20 Modern game I run has a... socially inept, awkward, unempathic, generally cold-fish guy.  He's playing a Charismatic4/Strong2 character, the face-man for the party.  Just as I wouldn't restrict someone from playing a Fighter because they weren't a martial artist or swordsman themselves, I shouldn't restrict this low-charisma player from playing a high-charisma character.  Using the "I bluff him" approach allows me to do this.  In fact, he sometimes throws in what his character says, and it's the most unhelpful, uncharismatic, awkward and socially inept stuff I've heard.  I just nod and let him roll, and that determines what happens.Rolling is not the death of roleplaying.  Rolling adds to the roleplaying, because it lets people who don't have the ability to do what their character can do fake it for awhile.  Maybe my low-charisma player will learn how to talk to people more effectively.  Maybe he'll see how taking the time to formulate things more politely can affect the situation.  Or maybe he won't, but he'll have fun playing a non-useful character.Have you let the players know this?  Players don't naturally just start doing the "I bluff" stuff with no flavortext.  They almost always have some reinforcement for doing so, either timewise or responsewise.  I give out bonuses (or, in rare cases, penalties) for the rolls if the PCs flavor-up their bluff attempts, but really, having rolls for Diplomacy and Bluff has opened up certain aspects of the game to people who wouldn't be able to involve themselves in that part of the game before.  It's a good thing.  If your players aren't using it, that's not the game's problem, any more than it's the rules' fault if your fights run like "I miss, he hits, I hit, he hits, I hit, he dies".Sometimes, in my campaign, we have unimportant side-plot fights run like that to keep things moving.  But in the main fights? Wow, even if it's just two people swinging away at each other, we've got flavor-text and shouts and curses and energy and emotion.  I'm not responsible for it -- my players are fantastic, and they bring a great element to the game -- but I do like to think that I helped make it accessible for them.  And letting people roll for Charisma checks, without flavor-text if they don't feel comfortable, is another way to make the game accessible to people who wouldn't otherwise be able to enjoy it.EDIT: Typos.</blockquote>

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