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Message: <blockquote data-quote="milotha" data-source="post: 1538231" data-attributes="member: 17122">Yes, I agree completely.  Now, on to my original point that the game has turned into roll playing.There are GMs out there that:1) Do not alter the DC as a result of the role playing or give extremely minor bonuses.  (As I've been saying, this doesn't reward creative play.)2) Set the DCs at absurdly high levels - (sometimes to the point of railroading the players by default.  I'll make the DC for this diplomacy check a 50, so they will have to end up in combat everytime.)3) Make every action that they don't want you to take require a roll on the dice.  - I attempt to get a beer in the bar.  Let's set that at a DC 15 diplomacy check.  Oh look I rolled a 7 and I only have +5 in diplomacy, I guess I can't order.  Give me a break.  4) Make all social skills checks an all or nothing result.  As per the above, 5) The higher your skill gets, the higher the DCs get for the same actions.6) Require a roll for every trivial action.This combined with:1) The low number of skill points the PCs get.2) The high number of skills to take.3) The sudden addition of skills that you now have no ranks in when a new supplement comes out.4) The high variability of the d20 role, which is just as likely to roll a 1 as it is to roll a 10.5) Many of these are cross class skills.Can reduce the game down into a frustrating exercise in roll playing.  Do you really need to make the players make a diplomacy roll everytime they interact with someone.  Do you need to make them make a sense motive roll, if it's obvious the person is lying.Now, if roll playing is your thing and everyone in the group doesn't want anything more than thak.  Ok.  I would probably find the game boring.  But if you have people who are trying to role play, don't just use the mechanic to squash them.  If they are being creative, funny, and interactive with your world, where is the harm in that?  Shouldn't you be encouraging this in your players?  When did role playing become a bad word.Here's the GM logic I've seen.  Player x is role playing and I give them a bonus to their actions based on the role playing.  Player y is not role playing, so he gets no bonuses.  That's unfair to player y, so I won't give bonuses.  I'm arguing that this is unfair to player x who put out the extra effort and endeavored to make the game more fun and interactive.</blockquote>

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