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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IceBear" data-source="post: 1539877" data-attributes="member: 1118">I just hope you realize that this is what MOST of us are doing too.  Don't want you to think you're doing something different than me for example, or that I feel roleplay is unimportant.  I even agree with your earlier statement that certain players play certain characters better than others.  My only difference is I'm willing to allow someone who ALWAYS plays the fighter (because that's what he's most "suited" to) to play a wizard or bard if he wants to (escapism like you said), whereas you make it sound like if he wants to do that and it makes things less fun for you, out he goes.  Given I don't have an endless supply of players (and most of them are my friends) I tend to try to be more understanding of what THEY want.I personally feel that it's not 3.x that's causing this rollplay not roleplay issue.  It's the culture of the new gamers.  As someone else pointed out, a lot of people coming into the hobby are from computer RPG backgrounds, whereas most of the old timers' first experiences with fantasy and RPG was from reading.  3.x was designed to be more accessible to the common masses, but I don't consider that a fault of 3.x (I WANT more players).  What people do with the rules, in the end, is what they want to do with them based on their experiences.  If the most they know about interacting with NPCs comes from a computer game, "I bluff the guard" might be a perfectly natural response from them.  One of my players is the wife of another long term player.  He is very charismatic and outgoing so he loves to ham it up while roleplaying.  She comes from a corporate background and is older than the rest of us.  At first I'm sure she felt pretty awkward and shy around us.  "I bluff the guard" might have been her response (to which I would ask for more details, but I wouldn't press her too much).  Now, a few years later, she's starting to get into it more.  If not for the social rules in 3E being the way they are, she might never have done that because she would never have even tried to "bluff the guard" because she would have felt too shy.  Would my game have been better for the past two years if I had replaced her with another player better able to "roleplay"?  Yes.  But it's been two years and I haven't found another player in all that time and Sandy is a good friend and to not let her play with us when she wanted to would have hurt that.  All in all, it worked for me.Just give these rollplayers time.  I'm sure most of them will notice that something's missing and start to roleplay (it is after all, what the game is).  For those of you suffering under a rollplaying GM - my sympathies.  Perhaps showing him this thread will help.  For those of you having fun under a rollplaying GM - great for you too.  Bottom line - do what you find fun.  I find it unfair (and thus not fun) to allow a player's social skills outweigh his character's when playing (like my two rogues example from earlier) as I don't consider combat to be the most important thing but if I de-emphasize a CHARACTER's social skills then I'm turning the game that way.Player gives speech, I set DC based on speech, character rolls skills for result of speech (and not all the time, just when it's called for).  I guess I'm in Merric's camp</blockquote>

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