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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zappo" data-source="post: 1542908" data-attributes="member: 633">Yes, I think that the rest of your post derives logically from this. However, I disagree on this basic point. The purpose of a role-playing game is to have fun. In my opinion, allowing the players to have fun in many different ways is a good quality for a game.  Having social mechanics means that a player who dislikes immersive roleplaying can still have fun in the same game where a storytelling-oriented player is. That's a notable advantage. I have all sorts of different players with different styles in my group, and everyone enjoys himself (at least, they keep asking me to DM <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). It's not unlike juggling, and I like having a system that helps me in that.  Now, I'm not saying that everyone should use Bluff rules and opposed Diplomacy checks - but for me it works beautifully because it makes everyone have fun in their favorite way, and I start from the assumption that a successful game is one where everyone has fun. If you start from the (equally valid) assumption that a successful game is one where everyone does exceptional roleplaying, you will naturally reach different conclusions.  Another can of food for thought: social skills are in fact a subset of real roleplaying. Namely, they come into play when you want something from an NPC, but there are still a large number of social interactions that don't involve that. And a large number of highly-dramatic events that aren't, strictly speaking, social interactions (combat, for example). They are all events that have a huge roleplaying potential, and that aren't covered by the rules at all. You don't have to test for terror upon meeting a monster (and when you do, it's supernatural), for example, but most people would flee from most monsters. You don't have to test for acting irrational for some rounds when the BBEG kills your brother in front of you, either. Have you ever done something stupid, fully conscious of it, simply because it was what the character would have done? Without any sort of rule enforcement or even encouragement? I did, I do (and when I get away with it, it feels great). Roleplaying is in the player, not in the rules.Uhm... does the (!) mean that the very idea of not needing a reward seems absurd to you? I know that it's a debatable concept, but I wouldn't think that it's completely wacky. It's pretty simple: either you enjoy roleplaying or you don't. If you do, there's no need for reward because you'll do it anyway. If you don't, it's ok for me - you can have fun at my table anyway - but if it wasn't, I would just tell you to roleplay or find a group that suits your style better. I don't want to get people to do stuff they don't want to do, and I don't have the authority to tell you whether you're good or not anyway. I am the DM, not the teacher.  Games produce the kind of behaviour they encourage? Maybe. In the short run. To a point. You see, a reward/punishment system can make you do something, but it can't make you like it. If you overdo it, it might do the opposite, actually. And you will never get great roleplaying from someone who doesn't like doing it. Besides - and this is way more important than games - I think that adults shouldn't need that kind of behavioural tricks.  Me? I roleplay, reward or not. To be entirely honest, I feel a bit stupid in games where I get a Diplomacy bonus for coming up with a cool IC speech. I don't know, it makes me feel like a kid at primary school getting a sweetie for answering the teacher's question or a whack for not listening. Why should the DM have the authority to judge my roleplaying anyway? When I have fun, that's the reward for good roleplaying. When my fellow players shut up and listen to me without even noticing that they are - that's the reward for great roleplaying. But that's just me.</blockquote>

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