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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5812833" data-attributes="member: 42582">Agreed.Agreed again. And I'm in that group (probably a minority, but I think the text in the rulebooks runs my way) that would add 4e skill challenges to this list. Although the rules text isn't as good as that in books like HeroWars/Quest, BW or Maelstrom Storytelling, it still makes it pretty clear that the procedure is: (1) GM states fictional situation; (2) player explains how his/her PC is engaging that situation; (3) GM specifies appropriate skill; (4) skill check is made; (5) GM describes the change in the fictional situation, based on the result of the skill check.I think this is one respect in which the skill challenge rules and guidelines are weak. They have to be supplemented by a particular approach to framing the situation - the GM has to threaten something the players care about that will then drive the PCs into action, and the narration of the resolution of skill checks similarly has to maintain the pressure until the challenge is resolved. (Happily, this also makes the "We have the face-man do all the talking" problem go away, because if the Diplomacy-challenged dwarf is going to look like an idiot unless he says something, then the player will step up in spite of that low number on the character sheet. Just like you make the player of the wizard use those low attack and hit point numbers by having the monsters attack the wizard too.)But I agree that once you are setting up situations where the stakes are high, and the players will have to step up and use the mechanics or have their PCs (and thus themselves) lose what they care for, you get play which is more revealing of the characters (and, sometimes, of the players!) then "in character" speeches whose bearing on the resolution is ambiguous at best.Agreed again. I think the whole "roleplaying"/"rollplaying" distinction only makes sense in the context of people playing with bad mechanics (eg AD&D 2nd ed, in my view at least) or with mechanics that aren't well suited to their priorities for play.The distinction also plays a role in validating the player of the Tomb of Horrors who doesn't particularly care for the dungeon crawl, but likes to feel good about writing up, and occasionally declaiming, great swathes of backstory for his/her PC. Like I said upthread, I want to take these players, shake them, and ask them what the hell they are doing wasting their time on Tomb of Horrors! Find a better system and a better scenario where playing your PC actually matters!</blockquote>

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