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Message: <blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 5813539" data-attributes="member: 99817">Thanks for the reply. I enjoyed it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm not going to explore the divide between our posts, simply because I think the divide is wafer thin and there's fertile common ground.My sweater is made of thread - maybe those threads are closely coupled, maybe they're integrated. In my first post in this thread I defined roleplaying as: fiction ----> system ----> fiction. I think roleplaying is a back and forth, back and forth between the two, like the thread which makes my sweater.(The anology came up with opera, but I dislike opera so I'm not going there.)However, I think it's clear roleplaying isn't fiction - fiction - fiction (a film or book or radio play) and equally clear it isn't system - system - system (chess or bridge).Some posters reject that definition on the basis (I think) of their experiences with social mechanics which, when poorly explained or implemented in a certain way, can lead to this:no fictional input -----> system -----> fictionMy objection is that not all social mechanics create that break. I fully agree that the above is not roleplaying at the momet it happens. However, I see the of implementation as the cause, not social mechanics as a whole, and so I cited two examples of social mechanics (BW and AW) which state in the clearest possilble terms not to allow the above to happen.Others reject fiction - system - fiction (I think) because it seems like a broad and vague use of the word 'system'. In my use it means 'Process used to decide what happens in the game'. Others say system has a different common meaning for rules like to hit modifiers and d20+skill+mods vs DC.I say system does more than that. It distributes authority in a new way. AD&D (or Vampire, RQ etc) gives the GM authority which he doesn't have with friends in the pub, or when choosing curtains with his wife. GM fiat is a product of system, as is narrative control for players.System also sets expectations on genre and role. AD&D says "This is a game of swords and sorcery". Traveller is "set against a backdrop drawn from adventure-oriented science fiction." Those aren't 'rules' as such, but they are part of the system - the bit which will likely earn you black looks and rolling eyes if you try to invent the digital watch in D&D or a +5 Holy Avenger in Traveller.And I guess that ends this rambling addendum to my original definition. I hope it is at least clear or, at miminum, a useful basis for discussion.</blockquote>

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