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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9316535" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think the fundamental assertion is that both, as well as PFS "play the system for its own sake" all share some traits in common when it comes to techniques and structure. In all these modes of play there's an aim to adhere to some external governing process/standard (in the case of PFS it is self-referential). So there will be rules of some form which produce outcomes in keeping with that thing, and part of the 'lusory attitude' is to adopt a specific orientation towards that thing, that adherence to it is a core stricture of play. Beyond that, sure, the details of what is handled vary wildly. I just think GNS is not thinking about S in the same way you are, but that does not make either perspective wrong. In fact being able to adopt a variety of views on a subject is generally helpful.I don't want to get into some Forge slapfight. I have not seen that. I mean, Edwards has spoken at length about his own play in which the things he is said to 'hate' featured heavily, and spoken about them in a quite positive light. Nor do any of the GNS essays incorporate negative views of any type of play. He may have arrived at a set of personal play preferences quite different from your own, but IMHO it makes more sense to simply acknowledge that everyone is different.</blockquote>