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What Games do you think are Neotrad?
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<blockquote data-quote="thefutilist" data-source="post: 9321496" data-attributes="member: 7044566"><p>In modern GNS terms, where we get rid of the S and so are left with G and N. Then, let’s say about half of how of all play involves people trying to achieve an N agenda. Whether they know it or not and most of them don’t.</p><p></p><p>So seen through a GNS lens, most groupings of play style are really just dysfunctional N but the dysfunction may take predictable forms. Predictable because of how the systematic failures of common play systems tend to warp/condition the story instinct.</p><p></p><p></p><p>O.C and genre sim are two such dysfunctions and through the GNS prism you’d get something like:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Both play styles developed because of how authority is distributed (badly) and they’re both reactions to that core dysfunction.</p><p></p><p>Genre sim: So because of how authority is distributed we end up with weird ideas about what a story is and technical issues because we can’t make the story ‘go’. The fix is basically to use genre as our social guiding light and the reward for play.</p><p></p><p>O.C: Is one common reaction to sts (Vampire/2E/message board play). Given that authority break down can’t make play ‘go’, you just end up investing and day dreaming about a character. The fix is that the other participants recognise the character and that becomes the social reward for play. (princess play is here)</p><p></p><p>So on a design level, you see a lot of fixes of secondary dysfunctions. If the primary dysfunction is fixed you play Sorcerer (I’m throwing a bone to those who vehemently disagree with me)</p><p></p><p>So O.C play tends toward just investing the GM with authority and the secondary fixes are all about getting rid of the superfluous stuff. Thing is, why bother? You don’t actually need to design for O.C play.</p><p></p><p>Genre sim has seen a variety of designs. I think FATE is the break through game but a lot of PbtA can be put in this category (which is why I think Eero puts Dungeon World here). If you go back in time then Feng Shui might be one of the first genre sim games.</p><p></p><p>I’ve given my thoughts on how neo-trad plays into this elsewhere in the thread. The brief version is that it’s Vampire but taking the peripheral rules more seriously.</p><p></p><p>If you don’t buy into GNS then you’d need a different analysis and many such are given in this thread. I do buy into GNS and this shows how extreme it is. Also why it’s hated. You can have all these really emotional, cathartic experiences, weep at the gaming table, have a genuine connection with the GM as they understand your character. Exult together as you hit the perfect notes of a genre, that you’ve mutually created. And an N dude will come along, put a hand on your shoulder, look at you sadly and say ‘are done with the pastiche yet?’</p><p></p><p>It’s really patronising.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thefutilist, post: 9321496, member: 7044566"] In modern GNS terms, where we get rid of the S and so are left with G and N. Then, let’s say about half of how of all play involves people trying to achieve an N agenda. Whether they know it or not and most of them don’t. So seen through a GNS lens, most groupings of play style are really just dysfunctional N but the dysfunction may take predictable forms. Predictable because of how the systematic failures of common play systems tend to warp/condition the story instinct. O.C and genre sim are two such dysfunctions and through the GNS prism you’d get something like: Both play styles developed because of how authority is distributed (badly) and they’re both reactions to that core dysfunction. Genre sim: So because of how authority is distributed we end up with weird ideas about what a story is and technical issues because we can’t make the story ‘go’. The fix is basically to use genre as our social guiding light and the reward for play. O.C: Is one common reaction to sts (Vampire/2E/message board play). Given that authority break down can’t make play ‘go’, you just end up investing and day dreaming about a character. The fix is that the other participants recognise the character and that becomes the social reward for play. (princess play is here) So on a design level, you see a lot of fixes of secondary dysfunctions. If the primary dysfunction is fixed you play Sorcerer (I’m throwing a bone to those who vehemently disagree with me) So O.C play tends toward just investing the GM with authority and the secondary fixes are all about getting rid of the superfluous stuff. Thing is, why bother? You don’t actually need to design for O.C play. Genre sim has seen a variety of designs. I think FATE is the break through game but a lot of PbtA can be put in this category (which is why I think Eero puts Dungeon World here). If you go back in time then Feng Shui might be one of the first genre sim games. I’ve given my thoughts on how neo-trad plays into this elsewhere in the thread. The brief version is that it’s Vampire but taking the peripheral rules more seriously. If you don’t buy into GNS then you’d need a different analysis and many such are given in this thread. I do buy into GNS and this shows how extreme it is. Also why it’s hated. You can have all these really emotional, cathartic experiences, weep at the gaming table, have a genuine connection with the GM as they understand your character. Exult together as you hit the perfect notes of a genre, that you’ve mutually created. And an N dude will come along, put a hand on your shoulder, look at you sadly and say ‘are done with the pastiche yet?’ It’s really patronising. [/QUOTE]
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