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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9761342" data-attributes="member: 87792">My question is going to be to reverse this. If I, as a 4e DM, could consistently design interesting tactical encounter maps in the middle of the session in less than a minute without it feeling contrived why couldn't WotC or Paizo.And the answer is fairly simple IMO. I could do it in 4e but couldn't in 5e or PF1e because what constitutes an interesting map is different.To illustrate let's take a simple scenario in 4e and 5.14. Four PCs (fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric) sitting round a campfire by a fast flowing river and eating dinner, armed. Four starving worgs decide to try their luck. In 5.14 this is a boring scenario. The fire is there and might as well be a big X on a green screen set saying "Do not step here" while the river might as well be a wall - or a do not cross line And the fight proceeds almost exactly as it would on a featureless large room with one wall unless the wizard is packing one of a tiny handful of spells like Thunder wave or Gust of WindBy contrast in 4e the fighter and wizard almost certainly have forced movement abilities (including at will ones like Tide of Iron and Thunderwave, especially if they know me as a DM) and the rogue probably does. The PCs start within five feet of the fire so the worgs are coming within ten feet of it. The PCs can kill the worgs faster if they can push them into the fire and more safely if they can push them into the river and force them to spend their turn swimming  back to shore and getting out on the bank. And unlike 5e they have the ability to do this as part of normal attacks. And that taking out the worgs efficiently and safely means putting them into the fire or water that are only there because this scene happened here turns it into a decent and distinct tactical challenge.I don't know how much forced movement is in PF2e - but from reports of collision damage I hear Draw Steel has overturned it.</blockquote>

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