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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 1366462" data-attributes="member: 15999">Some combat is a part of most games.  When it happens, I'd rather have a DM throw an equal-CR foe at the party and let the dice fall where they may than throw a high-CR foe and fudge so we win.  Once I know we're going to win every fight, I'd just as soon skip the fights altogether.  There's no drama and no telling if you won on your skills and tactics or not.  The key is that if the DM is going to let the dice rolls stand, he can't normally use the same "4 CRs higher" foes that a fudging DM might use.  And when he does use such foes, the PCs need an opportunity to learn that they're out of their league and avoid the fight or get properly prepared.  If a non-fudge DM uses a foe with higher CR than the party level AND an insta-kill ability AND no hints for the PCs to find out about the capabilities or at least relative power level of the foe, then yes, I agree it would not be a fun game.  But, normally, it should be extremely rare for any party to get TPK'd by an equal-CR opponent, unless they are rolling consistently poorly and make serious tactical blunders.  Choosing not to flee is often such a blunder.  That might be a hard in-character choice for the PCs to make - fleeing and leaving their fallen comrades behind - but making hard in-character choices is part of the fun of the game.  How do you deal with imminent defeat, whether due to overwhelming odds, bad decisions, or bad luck?  Do you fight to the death, flee, surrender, or use some sort of deception?  I think that's a hugely valuable part of RPGs, because defeats and temporary setbacks are things that virtually every character from myth and fantasy fiction has dealt with at one time or another.   Of course, there are different levels of fudging, some of which I have less problem with than others.  The DM can adjust die rolls or can adjust monster tactics to be slightly sub-optimal (the NPC barbarian gets over-eager and Power Attacks for his full BAB, or both the NPC fighters intercept the PC rogue to protect their wizard, thus neglecting to finish off the wounded PC cleric).  The DM can change it so the PCs win every fight, or can change the situation just enough to give them a single opening to flee or parley.  The DM can decrease the DC of the necromancer's saves to below what would be possible by the book, or can determine that those wight reinforcements actually won't be coming in Round 3.In one game I was in, the PCs were in a really bad place.  Two of the PCs had the ability to flee through magic.  My PC told them to flee if things looked grim in order to save the mission or at least spread the alarm.  I liked having the opportunity to do that, putting my PCs' priorities above my natural instinct to keep a cool character alive.  Unfortunately, when things should have gone bad, the DM had the bad guys hit each other with "fumbles" and swing for subdual damage on us while we were trying to kill them (that was the most insulting part - it's like they were trying to fight us with one hand tied behind their backs).  So it was all for naught.  My willingness to put the mission first didn't matter, we were never in any danger, and the other PCs never had to make the choice of leaving their comrades behind.  Combat and dice-rolling *do* provide opportunities for role-playing, based on how you respond to unexpected events.  Merciful DMs sometimes forget that.</blockquote>

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