Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8539657" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Voted my preferred stance, "someone comes to hunt you down," though as always, context matters and should be accounted for.</p><p></p><p>I find "your powers are just instantly gone!" stories...really boring. They don't really <em>do</em> anything. Either you retire the character entirely, at which point there's hardly any difference between power loss and perma-death (which I don't care for either), or you find a replacement patron (or patch up your relationship with your current one) so all your powers come back, or the DM throws you a bone and you rebuild as something else. There's...really not much at stake there, because the player won't actually have their ability to participate removed, and most DMs won't even ask for the character to be retired and will instead find some other solution. Further, the narrative risks being a cul-de-sac rather than an unexpected fork in the road, especially if you resolve the differences with your patron.</p><p></p><p>If I'm going to give my players challenging situations, ones they actually will struggle with, stakes like these won't cut it. In the game I run, I pit the values or objectives of a character against one another: "Do you set aside your antipathy for your slimy-businessman grandfather, who MIGHT be turning over a new leaf, or do you snub him like he deserves, but risk letting someone you dislike even <em>more</em> gaining power instead of your grandfather, who might at least listen?" Or, "Do you take an evil power into yourself so someone else doesn't have to carry that burden, or do you keep yourself 'clean,' at the cost of not helping a person you care about?" Those challenges are way more interesting, because no matter what you choose, the choice will linger on, having consequences and echoes perhaps for the entire campaign. Choices like these can't just be revoked.</p><p></p><p>And maybe that's the problem I have with most of these "my powers are gone" stories. The power, the control, is so one-sided that it has no real drama to it. You know the house always wins. Patrons have unilateral control. I'm much more interested in character challenges where the players are the ones in control, but still must agonize over what to do. That, in part, is why I favor the "patron police squad" approach: because a squad sent to hunt you down can be evaded, persuaded, blockaded, or eliminated--or maybe they <em>succeed</em> and now you have to escape from a prison of your patron's making or the like. It's <em>not</em> clear who has the power in these situations. The player may actually have to choose between retaining their freedom and avoiding immoral actions, that sort of thing. That's much more vibrant and memorable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8539657, member: 6790260"] Voted my preferred stance, "someone comes to hunt you down," though as always, context matters and should be accounted for. I find "your powers are just instantly gone!" stories...really boring. They don't really [I]do[/I] anything. Either you retire the character entirely, at which point there's hardly any difference between power loss and perma-death (which I don't care for either), or you find a replacement patron (or patch up your relationship with your current one) so all your powers come back, or the DM throws you a bone and you rebuild as something else. There's...really not much at stake there, because the player won't actually have their ability to participate removed, and most DMs won't even ask for the character to be retired and will instead find some other solution. Further, the narrative risks being a cul-de-sac rather than an unexpected fork in the road, especially if you resolve the differences with your patron. If I'm going to give my players challenging situations, ones they actually will struggle with, stakes like these won't cut it. In the game I run, I pit the values or objectives of a character against one another: "Do you set aside your antipathy for your slimy-businessman grandfather, who MIGHT be turning over a new leaf, or do you snub him like he deserves, but risk letting someone you dislike even [I]more[/I] gaining power instead of your grandfather, who might at least listen?" Or, "Do you take an evil power into yourself so someone else doesn't have to carry that burden, or do you keep yourself 'clean,' at the cost of not helping a person you care about?" Those challenges are way more interesting, because no matter what you choose, the choice will linger on, having consequences and echoes perhaps for the entire campaign. Choices like these can't just be revoked. And maybe that's the problem I have with most of these "my powers are gone" stories. The power, the control, is so one-sided that it has no real drama to it. You know the house always wins. Patrons have unilateral control. I'm much more interested in character challenges where the players are the ones in control, but still must agonize over what to do. That, in part, is why I favor the "patron police squad" approach: because a squad sent to hunt you down can be evaded, persuaded, blockaded, or eliminated--or maybe they [I]succeed[/I] and now you have to escape from a prison of your patron's making or the like. It's [I]not[/I] clear who has the power in these situations. The player may actually have to choose between retaining their freedom and avoiding immoral actions, that sort of thing. That's much more vibrant and memorable. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Happens if a Cleric/Warlock/etc PC Gravely Offends Their Supernatural Patron?
Top