Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What happens if other gaming companies don't have time for WoTc?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6673698" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>This is something I worry about. There's only so many partners, and these are not idle companies. And without an OGL there's not a lot of new partners stepping up. Paizo has a lot of 3PP, but most are digital only; getting into the business of physical books is risky, even with Kickstarter. I can think of two Pathfinder companies that have moved to books (Legendary Games and Dreamscarred Press, the former also just starting to do some 5e work).</p><p> </p><p>There's only so many partners and likely an overlap in schedules, as making an AP likely takes longer than the 6 months between books. For example, if Kobold Press was planning to write the spring AP but had to drop out, Green Ronin would be busy with <em>Rage of Demons</em>. That means it's up to Sasquatch Games, who *just* finished work on an AP. It's a lot to commit to. </p><p>It does mean putting unannounced projects on hold and delaying other works. And there's the loss of freedom, as you're telling someone else's story in someone else's world. After a bit you might want a break to tell your own stories in your personal sandbox. </p><p></p><p>Plus, the products are a big ol' advertisement for the 3rd Party. Everyone who bough <em>Princes of the Apocalypse</em> got a taste of the power of a Sasquatch, and might be more willing to check out Primeval Thule and future products. The storyline books are making these companies household names, and eventually they might "outgrow" D&D or the desire to tell adventures in the Forgotten Realms. I imagine the licensed adventures sell better than anything else they release, but that doesn't mean they make that much more money, as profits are split two ways (assuming there's profit sharing at all, and the studio isn't just paid a one-time fee, which is likely). Once they reach a certain amount of fame, selling their own stuff might make them more money despite selling fewer copies. </p><p></p><p> [MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION] gives a good breakdown:</p><p></p><p>This is the tricky one. There's three d20 companies we know capable of doing books of the quality WotC expects. Well, four if you add Paizo. Everyone else works with other systems or lacks the quality. Necromancer Games and Goodman Games do good stuff, but mostly work with cheaper paper and black-and-white art. I'm not sure they're up to it.</p><p></p><p>I suppose they could also try Peregrine Press or Monte Cook Games. But they seem focused on their own stuff and not 3rd Party products for other systems. And I've said Margaret Weis Productions might be a decent choice as well, being a former licence partner, but they might have also left their d20 days far behind. Tapping them might mean a weaker product as you're asking someone to write for an unfamiliar ruleset. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This is asking the publisher to delay the release of products sold via Kickstarter, which doesn't look good. Backers can be somewhat forgiving, but if they learned you put aside the book they paid for for more work that's some negative publicity right there. That might easily cost them future backers. </p><p></p><p>I think we might have seen a variant with this. <em>Out of the Abyss</em> is out in September not August, and was not ready for GenCon. And the <em>Sword Coast Adventurer's Handbook</em> isn't ready for the start of the season. I get the slight impression, Green Ronin might have prioritized DragonAge and the FantasyAge stuff, getting that stuff out for GenCon. </p><p>This is just some off-hand speculation really. If told otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised: I imagine the teams are very different. But it does make sense to prioritize the stuff that you get a higher percentage of and is going to grow your own brands rather than content that's just licensed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I really don't think WotC has the staff. </p><p>First, they're doling other work that's not going away. It's doubling the workload with no raise or other compensation, and it would mean a drop in communication with other licence partners and the like. WotC has no shortage of other freelancers they could call, and the WotC staff could "self-freelance" by working on the project in their off hours. But that only works for writing, and to a lesser extend editing. The art team would still have to do all their work during normal hours, since they need the computers and software. Writing a book is only half the work. </p><p>So this seems less likely.</p><p></p><p>This does lead to another option: have the 3PP hire more staff. Tap more freelancers to do the work. Normally just hiring more people is financially unlikely, as the studio only has so much disposable cash at one time, but an influx of loot from WotC would solve that problem. </p><p>It's not ideal as WotC is licencing Green Ronin to get Green Ronin, to get their A-list talent, not their B-team. And it likely stretches the artists and editors, as there are likely fewer of those on call. Mixing and matching the team would be a likely compromise, replacing *some* of the A-talent and named on the in-house product with other freelancers and moving them onto the D&D book. And there's still some key staff and jobs that cannot be freelanced: art directors, people working on layout, the management types.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6673698, member: 37579"] This is something I worry about. There's only so many partners, and these are not idle companies. And without an OGL there's not a lot of new partners stepping up. Paizo has a lot of 3PP, but most are digital only; getting into the business of physical books is risky, even with Kickstarter. I can think of two Pathfinder companies that have moved to books (Legendary Games and Dreamscarred Press, the former also just starting to do some 5e work). There's only so many partners and likely an overlap in schedules, as making an AP likely takes longer than the 6 months between books. For example, if Kobold Press was planning to write the spring AP but had to drop out, Green Ronin would be busy with [I]Rage of Demons[/I]. That means it's up to Sasquatch Games, who *just* finished work on an AP. It's a lot to commit to. It does mean putting unannounced projects on hold and delaying other works. And there's the loss of freedom, as you're telling someone else's story in someone else's world. After a bit you might want a break to tell your own stories in your personal sandbox. Plus, the products are a big ol' advertisement for the 3rd Party. Everyone who bough [I]Princes of the Apocalypse[/I] got a taste of the power of a Sasquatch, and might be more willing to check out Primeval Thule and future products. The storyline books are making these companies household names, and eventually they might "outgrow" D&D or the desire to tell adventures in the Forgotten Realms. I imagine the licensed adventures sell better than anything else they release, but that doesn't mean they make that much more money, as profits are split two ways (assuming there's profit sharing at all, and the studio isn't just paid a one-time fee, which is likely). Once they reach a certain amount of fame, selling their own stuff might make them more money despite selling fewer copies. [MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION] gives a good breakdown: This is the tricky one. There's three d20 companies we know capable of doing books of the quality WotC expects. Well, four if you add Paizo. Everyone else works with other systems or lacks the quality. Necromancer Games and Goodman Games do good stuff, but mostly work with cheaper paper and black-and-white art. I'm not sure they're up to it. I suppose they could also try Peregrine Press or Monte Cook Games. But they seem focused on their own stuff and not 3rd Party products for other systems. And I've said Margaret Weis Productions might be a decent choice as well, being a former licence partner, but they might have also left their d20 days far behind. Tapping them might mean a weaker product as you're asking someone to write for an unfamiliar ruleset. This is asking the publisher to delay the release of products sold via Kickstarter, which doesn't look good. Backers can be somewhat forgiving, but if they learned you put aside the book they paid for for more work that's some negative publicity right there. That might easily cost them future backers. I think we might have seen a variant with this. [I]Out of the Abyss[/I] is out in September not August, and was not ready for GenCon. And the [I]Sword Coast Adventurer's Handbook[/I] isn't ready for the start of the season. I get the slight impression, Green Ronin might have prioritized DragonAge and the FantasyAge stuff, getting that stuff out for GenCon. This is just some off-hand speculation really. If told otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised: I imagine the teams are very different. But it does make sense to prioritize the stuff that you get a higher percentage of and is going to grow your own brands rather than content that's just licensed. I really don't think WotC has the staff. First, they're doling other work that's not going away. It's doubling the workload with no raise or other compensation, and it would mean a drop in communication with other licence partners and the like. WotC has no shortage of other freelancers they could call, and the WotC staff could "self-freelance" by working on the project in their off hours. But that only works for writing, and to a lesser extend editing. The art team would still have to do all their work during normal hours, since they need the computers and software. Writing a book is only half the work. So this seems less likely. This does lead to another option: have the 3PP hire more staff. Tap more freelancers to do the work. Normally just hiring more people is financially unlikely, as the studio only has so much disposable cash at one time, but an influx of loot from WotC would solve that problem. It's not ideal as WotC is licencing Green Ronin to get Green Ronin, to get their A-list talent, not their B-team. And it likely stretches the artists and editors, as there are likely fewer of those on call. Mixing and matching the team would be a likely compromise, replacing *some* of the A-talent and named on the in-house product with other freelancers and moving them onto the D&D book. And there's still some key staff and jobs that cannot be freelanced: art directors, people working on layout, the management types. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What happens if other gaming companies don't have time for WoTc?
Top