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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7408081" data-attributes="member: 6880599">Even max/min implies a minimum which is sub optimal. You can be a rogue scout with expertise in stealth, investigation, perception, and survival with an reliable talent at level 11 for a minimum role for 10 and +9 with 13 dexterity, wisdom, and intelligence being considered very suboptimal with a minimum of 19 on those checks.At the same time an &quot;optimized&quot; wood elf Tome Warlock with stealth, investigation, perception, survival, devil's sight, dexterity 18, wisdom 14, intelligence 14 and observant feat would have minimum of stealth of 1+8 so minimum 9 , investigation &amp; perception of 1+6 or minimum 7 (passive 21), survival of 1+6 or minimum 7, guidance from tome for an extra 1d4 sometimes and be considered very good compared to the rest of your group working very well as a scout/tracker for the group. So optimization can be a little ... subjective. I actually play the warlock above and got complaints about &quot;optimizing&quot; then rolled bad a couple of times and they were like wow you suck. I replied, sure ... you do it then. They were then happy to let me lead the way into the traps without complaining and because I do fail once in a while the healer needs to do his job a bit more and wizard investigates arcane traps instead of me sometimes if I see them first while I catch enough of the trouble that no one doubts that I should be doing it instead of them. If I seem to be failing my way through we beak and also provides some interesting story hooks.I don't think sub optimal matters unless someone else in the group is better than you at &quot;your job&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7408081, member: 6880599"] Even max/min implies a minimum which is sub optimal. You can be a rogue scout with expertise in stealth, investigation, perception, and survival with an reliable talent at level 11 for a minimum role for 10 and +9 with 13 dexterity, wisdom, and intelligence being considered very suboptimal with a minimum of 19 on those checks. At the same time an "optimized" wood elf Tome Warlock with stealth, investigation, perception, survival, devil's sight, dexterity 18, wisdom 14, intelligence 14 and observant feat would have minimum of stealth of 1+8 so minimum 9 , investigation & perception of 1+6 or minimum 7 (passive 21), survival of 1+6 or minimum 7, guidance from tome for an extra 1d4 sometimes and be considered very good compared to the rest of your group working very well as a scout/tracker for the group. So optimization can be a little ... subjective. I actually play the warlock above and got complaints about "optimizing" then rolled bad a couple of times and they were like wow you suck. I replied, sure ... you do it then. They were then happy to let me lead the way into the traps without complaining and because I do fail once in a while the healer needs to do his job a bit more and wizard investigates arcane traps instead of me sometimes if I see them first while I catch enough of the trouble that no one doubts that I should be doing it instead of them. If I seem to be failing my way through we beak and also provides some interesting story hooks. I don't think sub optimal matters unless someone else in the group is better than you at "your job". [/QUOTE]

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