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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 265779" data-attributes="member: 4036">The advancement line you are referring to references whether or not the creature has a change in how it advances, by HD or by Class levels.  It has nothing to do with the speed.Perhaps I should rephrase.  If each of those characters seperate of the other defeats a CR 16 Dragon, the templated fighter without breaking a sweat and the kobold in the fight of his life, would they both get the same amount of experience from it?  Would they both advance and learn as much from the experience?I say no.  While the same level, the templates afforded one so many abilities that it wasn't challenged and forced to grow to win.So it doesn't learn as much.Hence advancement is slower.Or in mechanics, the one is a higher effective level.As toIf you are telling me the lich template has 0 ECL and the half dragon and fiendish templates do have ECL then I think I'll just leave you to whatever it is you'd like to do and take my opinion elsewhere.Might I recommend you go read up on what ECL is and what purpose it serves?Lich's most certainly have ECL.  Anything more powerful than the standard races when used as a PC has ECL.  Unless you are stating that liches are no more powerful than core races.Actually, nevermind.  The number of arguments, examples, and analogies I've presented in this thread is rather astronomical and I've yet to have a single person agree with my point of view or even see my point.  At this point it is extremely frustrating and bordering on angering to me.  So I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion guys.  It's no longer worth the stimulation to me.Sorry for any offense I may have rendered.</blockquote>

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