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Message: <blockquote data-quote="trix" data-source="post: 266411" data-attributes="member: 5337">...Er, well, then you modify the Lich PrC template to inherit Wizard such that advancing in Lich advances in Wizard.Therefore it would be Lich 5 Wizard 7 (effective 12).  Although this is a bit of a dodgy way to do it.---Well, consider the modifications I recommended above.What if there are multiple chance at intermediate or total failure during the transformation.  You might be Lich 5, Wizard 30 when you start, but one too many failiures make the average Lich 5 Wizard 12, one must remember that Lich 5 = Lich Template.Starting CR was significantly higher.  Average Lich results , after multiple failiures results in Lich Wizard 12.Why cant you have Lich Wizard 30 ?Surely, the average lich should have been 'living' for alot longer than a few days when you first cross his/its path.  So, there is something inherintly wrong with a Lich Wizard 12.Its like the good ol Orc Warrior problem.  Not ALL orcs are warriors.  Some have levels.  Some monsters are significantly more powerfull.  So, the template lich is effectively the worst case, minimum the lich should be.  It says nothing about how the lich came to be (?).There would definately be significant chances of loosing a N/PC during the transformation process.The question (and I havnt been following the thread) seems to be how to figure out the strength of the party with an 'immortal' character.Well, math would say that the strength of the party is infinite.Bugger of a problem.-Tim</blockquote>

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