Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Has Caused the OSR Revival?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6226626" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>People are, on average, considerably faster at addition than subtraction. Especially when dealing with a two-digit subtraction, and even more so when the subraction leads to a negative result.</p><p></p><p>It's also worth noting that in the subraction you're deducting the variable from the fixed value, rather than the other way around, which makes a difference as well. (That is, (13 - roll) is harder than (roll - 13).)</p><p></p><p>But finally, the calculation in older editions wasn't really THAC0 - roll. It was THAC0 - (roll + modifiers), giving rise to an extra step. Now, it is true that you could (and should) pre-calculate to get a modified THAC0 for each weapon, but <em>that</em> then gave rise to the oddity that a <em>sword +1</em> meant that you had to <em>subtract</em> 1 from your THAC0. (And, equally, that a <em>shield +1</em> required you to <em>subtract</em> one from your AC.) And, of course, even doing that didn't remove all the modifiers, as things like weapon vs armour type, or the bonus for attacking from higher ground, would needed added as well.</p><p></p><p>Whether THAC0 was confusing or not is debateable, and for some people it clearly was not. But the 3e/4e/PF approach of a BAB and ascending Armour Classes is simply <em>better</em>.</p><p></p><p>(By way of evidence, Delta did a lot of analysis on this in <a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/what-is-best-combat-algorithm.html" target="_blank">this post</a>, which includes a link to the relevant claims about addition v subtraction.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 6226626, member: 22424"] People are, on average, considerably faster at addition than subtraction. Especially when dealing with a two-digit subtraction, and even more so when the subraction leads to a negative result. It's also worth noting that in the subraction you're deducting the variable from the fixed value, rather than the other way around, which makes a difference as well. (That is, (13 - roll) is harder than (roll - 13).) But finally, the calculation in older editions wasn't really THAC0 - roll. It was THAC0 - (roll + modifiers), giving rise to an extra step. Now, it is true that you could (and should) pre-calculate to get a modified THAC0 for each weapon, but [i]that[/i] then gave rise to the oddity that a [i]sword +1[/i] meant that you had to [i]subtract[/i] 1 from your THAC0. (And, equally, that a [i]shield +1[/i] required you to [i]subtract[/i] one from your AC.) And, of course, even doing that didn't remove all the modifiers, as things like weapon vs armour type, or the bonus for attacking from higher ground, would needed added as well. Whether THAC0 was confusing or not is debateable, and for some people it clearly was not. But the 3e/4e/PF approach of a BAB and ascending Armour Classes is simply [i]better[/i]. (By way of evidence, Delta did a lot of analysis on this in [URL="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/what-is-best-combat-algorithm.html"]this post[/URL], which includes a link to the relevant claims about addition v subtraction.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What Has Caused the OSR Revival?
Top