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What Has Caused the OSR Revival?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dunnagin" data-source="post: 6226777" data-attributes="member: 6679036"><p>I can give you my personal experience with each edition (I was the DM most of the time).</p><p> </p><p>My group started with AD&D (1E, whatever you wish to call it).</p><p>We dropped several rules (such as Weapon Speed Factor) and ended up playing something closed to Basic (BX sort of), but without Race as Class.</p><p> </p><p>When 2E came out, it added options (Weapon & Non Weapon Proficiencies). We adopted Weapon proficiencies (everyone liked a little extra damage), and Non Weapon Proficiencies really didn’t change the game much (being a Blacksmith or able to Weave Baskets really didn’t impact the game play much, just added flavor).</p><p> </p><p>In essence, at this point, we were still not playing anything much more complex than Basic still. There were a few more options, and a bunch of overpowered stuff added by the “Handbook” splats… but most things could be mitigated, and were optional.</p><p> </p><p>In college, I had less time to DM, so we moved to the Rules Cyclopedia. Race as Class was an odd thing at first, but could be easily house-ruled away. The Weapon Skill charts added some fiddly stuff, but it was mainly on the player side, so not a big deal. I liked the idea of the entire system being held in one book.</p><p> </p><p>3.0 was really a “game changer”. Instead of more optional “add ons”, which is what had happened so far, all of the changes were now “hard coded” into the game. You couldn’t really “house-rule away” Feats, Feat Chains or Prestige Classes. The system also added more complexity to Monster Stat Blocks and a lot of other, very granular, rules that made the game harder to DM (but it was delightful for players, who now had a million options).</p><p> </p><p>Pathfinder changed some things for those who were invested in 3.0/3.5, but for those who wanted the system to “step back” and be more streamlined, nothing really was addressed. They simply tweaked a few minor “bugs” for those who were already invested in the system.</p><p> </p><p>4E tried to correct the “mistakes” made by 3.0/3.5, and focused on making the game easier to play and much easier to DM. They did this by (in my opinion) “re-booting” the system from scratch. Those of us who started out playing AD&D were like PC Users who had suddenly switched to MAC OS. Nothing was where we thought it would be, the system worked differently… and from our perspective, it defied logic (based on previous experience mind you).</p><p> </p><p>It was the design of 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and 4E where they “lost me as a DM”.</p><p> </p><p>I went back to DMing older editions.</p><p> </p><p>I think my sweet spot would be an updated Basic, with some actual options (not hard coded changes)… and perhaps a few updates (such as Ascending AC).</p><p> </p><p>That was my “road”.</p><p></p><p>As to your point: I think lowering complexity for the DM is crucial... giving Player Character's a ton of options is probably ok, as long as it doesn't "bloat" the system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dunnagin, post: 6226777, member: 6679036"] I can give you my personal experience with each edition (I was the DM most of the time). My group started with AD&D (1E, whatever you wish to call it). We dropped several rules (such as Weapon Speed Factor) and ended up playing something closed to Basic (BX sort of), but without Race as Class. When 2E came out, it added options (Weapon & Non Weapon Proficiencies). We adopted Weapon proficiencies (everyone liked a little extra damage), and Non Weapon Proficiencies really didn’t change the game much (being a Blacksmith or able to Weave Baskets really didn’t impact the game play much, just added flavor). In essence, at this point, we were still not playing anything much more complex than Basic still. There were a few more options, and a bunch of overpowered stuff added by the “Handbook” splats… but most things could be mitigated, and were optional. In college, I had less time to DM, so we moved to the Rules Cyclopedia. Race as Class was an odd thing at first, but could be easily house-ruled away. The Weapon Skill charts added some fiddly stuff, but it was mainly on the player side, so not a big deal. I liked the idea of the entire system being held in one book. 3.0 was really a “game changer”. Instead of more optional “add ons”, which is what had happened so far, all of the changes were now “hard coded” into the game. You couldn’t really “house-rule away” Feats, Feat Chains or Prestige Classes. The system also added more complexity to Monster Stat Blocks and a lot of other, very granular, rules that made the game harder to DM (but it was delightful for players, who now had a million options). Pathfinder changed some things for those who were invested in 3.0/3.5, but for those who wanted the system to “step back” and be more streamlined, nothing really was addressed. They simply tweaked a few minor “bugs” for those who were already invested in the system. 4E tried to correct the “mistakes” made by 3.0/3.5, and focused on making the game easier to play and much easier to DM. They did this by (in my opinion) “re-booting” the system from scratch. Those of us who started out playing AD&D were like PC Users who had suddenly switched to MAC OS. Nothing was where we thought it would be, the system worked differently… and from our perspective, it defied logic (based on previous experience mind you). It was the design of 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and 4E where they “lost me as a DM”. I went back to DMing older editions. I think my sweet spot would be an updated Basic, with some actual options (not hard coded changes)… and perhaps a few updates (such as Ascending AC). That was my “road”. As to your point: I think lowering complexity for the DM is crucial... giving Player Character's a ton of options is probably ok, as long as it doesn't "bloat" the system. [/QUOTE]
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