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What Has Caused the OSR Revival?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7378208" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing. First, while I do agree that 1e experiences varied greatly from table to table, in this regard we don't differ a bit. From the time I began DMing, I always was making things up and making up rulings on the fly. </p><p></p><p>But that's beside the point. It doesn't matter whether I'm a flexible DM or not. It doesn't matter how empowered the DM is. It doesn't matter if the DM is fully willing to let the players offer any proposition that seems remotely reasonable. It doesn't matter if you have the attitude of say, "Yes." Whatever is not explicitly empowered isn't very likely to be part of your game at all. </p><p></p><p>Case in point...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So if you created something that you felt was missing, then it became codified and now that became something that empowered the players. But the vast majority of the time all your rulings were going to be not about things outside the game that you hadn't codified, blessed, and offered to the players, the vast majority of your rulings are going to be about the game pieces in the game and on various interpretations there of.</p><p></p><p>It's extremely obvious that whatever else happened as a result of codifying magic item creation and putting it in the Player's Handbook, that the players became vastly more empowered to create magic items than they were in 1e AD&D when magic item creation was a skeleton of a framework, entirely controlled by the DM's whim, and buried in the DMG. And, had the PH not had any hints that magic item creation was something casters could do, then it would have been less likely that a particular table had magic item creation as a major part of its game. And had neither the PH nor the DMG had hints that magic items could be made by PC's, even fewer PC's would have ever undertaken it. What is not explicitly permitted may not be forbidden, but that doesn't mean that just by not being forbidden it's ever or likely to be a big part of any give tables gameplay. What there is no hints to just isn't going to be imagined as often, regardless of how creative your players are. But what is explicitly permitted will be. And that has nothing at all to do with the flexibility of the DM or the system calling out that the DM has the right to create rules on the fly.</p><p></p><p>Everyone's response thus far has been some variation of, "Well, I'm so much more creative than you." or "Well, my players were just so much more creative than yours." Oh really. I've got plenty of posts at EnWorld to suggest that I'm not the least creative person you are going to meet. Look up my discussion of Qaybar, how to run Temple of Elemental Evil, or any of my house rule posts, or any number of times I've offered to help with content. </p><p></p><p>But if you are just so creative, how many of you had players build astronomical observatories (towers, henges, etc.) in their game to help calculate the best time to cast spells? Did they construct telescopes for this purpose? How many of you had players propose on their own that they want to go on quests to find nodes of magical power where ley lines converge that might enhance certain spells they wished to cast? How many of you had players propose to cast spells beyond their level of ability, and you were like, "Sure that's fine, give it a try. I don't mind a 3rd level M-U trying to cast a 4th level spell without a scroll." I'm guessing few or none of you. For almost no tables was that a part of the game, and for the ones that was the majority probably were inspired by a Dragon Magazine article or some work of fiction you wanted to emulate and once there were rules for it, it became a part of your campaign. But, had it on page 15 of the PH spelled out that spellcaster could get an effective bump of up to 6 caster levels by doing those things, then you could bet that those sort of things would have been a part of many tables. Your positions seems to be, "Well, a creative table is going to imagine all that stuff anyway. They don't really need any of that to fire their imagination." Maybe, but it didn't happen either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7378208, member: 4937"] Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing. First, while I do agree that 1e experiences varied greatly from table to table, in this regard we don't differ a bit. From the time I began DMing, I always was making things up and making up rulings on the fly. But that's beside the point. It doesn't matter whether I'm a flexible DM or not. It doesn't matter how empowered the DM is. It doesn't matter if the DM is fully willing to let the players offer any proposition that seems remotely reasonable. It doesn't matter if you have the attitude of say, "Yes." Whatever is not explicitly empowered isn't very likely to be part of your game at all. Case in point... So if you created something that you felt was missing, then it became codified and now that became something that empowered the players. But the vast majority of the time all your rulings were going to be not about things outside the game that you hadn't codified, blessed, and offered to the players, the vast majority of your rulings are going to be about the game pieces in the game and on various interpretations there of. It's extremely obvious that whatever else happened as a result of codifying magic item creation and putting it in the Player's Handbook, that the players became vastly more empowered to create magic items than they were in 1e AD&D when magic item creation was a skeleton of a framework, entirely controlled by the DM's whim, and buried in the DMG. And, had the PH not had any hints that magic item creation was something casters could do, then it would have been less likely that a particular table had magic item creation as a major part of its game. And had neither the PH nor the DMG had hints that magic items could be made by PC's, even fewer PC's would have ever undertaken it. What is not explicitly permitted may not be forbidden, but that doesn't mean that just by not being forbidden it's ever or likely to be a big part of any give tables gameplay. What there is no hints to just isn't going to be imagined as often, regardless of how creative your players are. But what is explicitly permitted will be. And that has nothing at all to do with the flexibility of the DM or the system calling out that the DM has the right to create rules on the fly. Everyone's response thus far has been some variation of, "Well, I'm so much more creative than you." or "Well, my players were just so much more creative than yours." Oh really. I've got plenty of posts at EnWorld to suggest that I'm not the least creative person you are going to meet. Look up my discussion of Qaybar, how to run Temple of Elemental Evil, or any of my house rule posts, or any number of times I've offered to help with content. But if you are just so creative, how many of you had players build astronomical observatories (towers, henges, etc.) in their game to help calculate the best time to cast spells? Did they construct telescopes for this purpose? How many of you had players propose on their own that they want to go on quests to find nodes of magical power where ley lines converge that might enhance certain spells they wished to cast? How many of you had players propose to cast spells beyond their level of ability, and you were like, "Sure that's fine, give it a try. I don't mind a 3rd level M-U trying to cast a 4th level spell without a scroll." I'm guessing few or none of you. For almost no tables was that a part of the game, and for the ones that was the majority probably were inspired by a Dragon Magazine article or some work of fiction you wanted to emulate and once there were rules for it, it became a part of your campaign. But, had it on page 15 of the PH spelled out that spellcaster could get an effective bump of up to 6 caster levels by doing those things, then you could bet that those sort of things would have been a part of many tables. Your positions seems to be, "Well, a creative table is going to imagine all that stuff anyway. They don't really need any of that to fire their imagination." Maybe, but it didn't happen either. [/QUOTE]
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