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<blockquote data-quote="Dogbrain" data-source="post: 1330584" data-attributes="member: 14980">&quot;Fun&quot; is all a matter of taste.&nbsp; Do you think that your preference is all there is to humanity?&nbsp; I doubt that.&nbsp; Second, too many people mistake &quot;lots of extra details and dice rolls&quot; for &quot;gives a strong model of how the world really works&quot;.&nbsp; ChartLaw is an excellent example of a tediously detailed system with zilch in &quot;realism&quot;.Gee, sounds a LOT like GURPS Swashbucklers and/or GURPS Martial Arts to me...The D20 combat system is incredibly abstract, and most of the people who use it haven't the faintest idea about what it abstracts--they presume that it is all Flintstone boxing.&nbsp; The problem with adding &quot;moves&quot; is that it presumes that the basic system does not already have &quot;moves&quot; built into it.&nbsp; As any of the corporte apparatchiks who have tried over the decades to rationalize hit points, armor classs, combat round length, etc., have made plain, the combat system DOES automatically include all those &quot;moves&quot; in it, even if it doesn't explicitly lay them out in rulespeak.Thus, the first task for you will be to eliminate the effects of all those &quot;moves&quot; from the combat system.&nbsp; Then you can build onto what's left.So, how much of the &quot;moves&quot; is in Dex modifier?&nbsp; How much is in hit points?&nbsp; How much is in BAB?&nbsp; How much is in &quot;armor proficiencies&quot;?&nbsp; How much is in weapon proficiency?&nbsp; Determine all of these.&nbsp; Excise them, then you will have something that can be detailed without getting silly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dogbrain, post: 1330584, member: 14980"] "Fun" is all a matter of taste. Do you think that your preference is all there is to humanity? I doubt that. Second, too many people mistake "lots of extra details and dice rolls" for "gives a strong model of how the world really works". ChartLaw is an excellent example of a tediously detailed system with zilch in "realism". Gee, sounds a LOT like GURPS Swashbucklers and/or GURPS Martial Arts to me... The D20 combat system is incredibly abstract, and most of the people who use it haven't the faintest idea about what it abstracts--they presume that it is all Flintstone boxing. The problem with adding "moves" is that it presumes that the basic system does not already have "moves" built into it. As any of the corporte apparatchiks who have tried over the decades to rationalize hit points, armor classs, combat round length, etc., have made plain, the combat system DOES automatically include all those "moves" in it, even if it doesn't explicitly lay them out in rulespeak. Thus, the first task for you will be to eliminate the effects of all those "moves" from the combat system. Then you can build onto what's left. So, how much of the "moves" is in Dex modifier? How much is in hit points? How much is in BAB? How much is in "armor proficiencies"? How much is in weapon proficiency? Determine all of these. Excise them, then you will have something that can be detailed without getting silly. [/QUOTE]

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