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What Hill Will You Die On?
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<blockquote data-quote="RareBreed" data-source="post: 9102130" data-attributes="member: 6945590"><p>Actually, modern body armor can defeat even very high powered rounds. The problem is still the weight. As I mentioned, part of the desire of the US Army to replace the old 5.56mm NATO round was its poor incapacitation record, and problems defeating modern body armor. Even the heavier 7.62mm/.306 Winchester has problems defeating Level III body armor much less Level IV. You need a 30-06 or some of the more modern rounds (like a 338 Lapua) to get through Level IV.</p><p></p><p>I'm not so sure. The main problem is the thickness of medieval plate armor. From what I've gathered, the thickest breast plates were around about 6mm but typically were around 2-4mm thick. A Level III steel plate (that can defeat multiple 7.62mm rounds) is around 10mm thick. I will grant you that even in the modern case, getting hit will bring a good chance of being hors de combat due to possibly broken ribs or severe bruising (in the worst case, the bullet won't penetrate, but spalling can occur which is basically a fragmentation of the plate itself). The bruising can be very bad due to kinetic energy transfer. This is an extreme example, but there was an account of a sailor during the battle of the Monitor vs the Merrimack in the American Civil War where a sailor was leaning against the side of the hull when a cannonball impacted against the armored hull. Although the cannon did not breach the armored hull, it was said that they "had to remove the sailor in buckets".</p><p></p><p>Granted, our metallurgy is also far more advanced today and we can tailor the steel for different characteristics. But by late renaissance, Damascus and Toledo steel were quite impressive.</p><p></p><p>Now, plate armor against a 9mm? I don't know, but I'd much rather have the medieval plate than nothing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RareBreed, post: 9102130, member: 6945590"] Actually, modern body armor can defeat even very high powered rounds. The problem is still the weight. As I mentioned, part of the desire of the US Army to replace the old 5.56mm NATO round was its poor incapacitation record, and problems defeating modern body armor. Even the heavier 7.62mm/.306 Winchester has problems defeating Level III body armor much less Level IV. You need a 30-06 or some of the more modern rounds (like a 338 Lapua) to get through Level IV. I'm not so sure. The main problem is the thickness of medieval plate armor. From what I've gathered, the thickest breast plates were around about 6mm but typically were around 2-4mm thick. A Level III steel plate (that can defeat multiple 7.62mm rounds) is around 10mm thick. I will grant you that even in the modern case, getting hit will bring a good chance of being hors de combat due to possibly broken ribs or severe bruising (in the worst case, the bullet won't penetrate, but spalling can occur which is basically a fragmentation of the plate itself). The bruising can be very bad due to kinetic energy transfer. This is an extreme example, but there was an account of a sailor during the battle of the Monitor vs the Merrimack in the American Civil War where a sailor was leaning against the side of the hull when a cannonball impacted against the armored hull. Although the cannon did not breach the armored hull, it was said that they "had to remove the sailor in buckets". Granted, our metallurgy is also far more advanced today and we can tailor the steel for different characteristics. But by late renaissance, Damascus and Toledo steel were quite impressive. Now, plate armor against a 9mm? I don't know, but I'd much rather have the medieval plate than nothing. [/QUOTE]
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