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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9337224" data-attributes="member: 6790260">The simplest solution to this problem, albeit one that would require more than just a light fairy-dusting of homebrew, is to fork out what 5e currently uses as levels 1 and 2 (and possibly 3 as well) and turn them into &quot;zero levels,&quot; &quot;novice levels,&quot; or whatever else we wish to call them.This ensures that the choice of subclass occurs at first level, as desired. It also ensures that we can tailor the &quot;gritty,&quot; high-lethality, few-skills, still-&quot;green&quot; experience to the specific interests and preferences of those who really want that experience, without forcing every player to either do a whole bunch of extra work, or slog through that same experience when it isn't wanted. Further, it allows tailored adventures specifically meant for &quot;novice&quot; characters, which can run a gamut from &quot;introducing the player to the basic concepts of the game&quot; to &quot;DCC-style funnel&quot; to &quot;Tomb of Annihilation&quot; and more. And, finally, if the rules are really well-made, they will allow anyone (not just those who like the aforementioned &quot;gritty&quot; experience) the ability to spool out the space between character levels significantly, meaning those who want slow advancement but not zero advancement can have a better experience overall, and even folks that want relatively quick advancement can smooth out the process of gaining levels to some extent, softening the sharp, digital gap between levels.I will not stop advocating for (and this is very important) well-made &quot;novice&quot; levels. Such a system is one of the incredibly rare &quot;have your cake and eat it too&quot; situations, where everyone benefits, I guess with the sole exception of the designers, who have a new system to draft up and test. But I think that's well worth the substantial and pervasive benefits.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9337224, member: 6790260"] The simplest solution to this problem, albeit one that would require more than just a light fairy-dusting of homebrew, is to fork out what 5e currently uses as levels 1 and 2 (and possibly 3 as well) and turn them into "zero levels," "novice levels," or whatever else we wish to call them. This ensures that the choice of subclass occurs at first level, as desired. It also ensures that we can tailor the "gritty," high-lethality, few-skills, still-"green" experience to the specific interests and preferences of those who really want that experience, without forcing every player to either do a whole bunch of extra work, or slog through that same experience when it isn't wanted. Further, it allows [I]tailored adventures[/I] specifically meant for "novice" characters, which can run a gamut from "introducing the player to the basic concepts of the game" to "DCC-style funnel" to "Tomb of Annihilation" and more. And, finally, if the rules are really well-made, they will allow anyone (not just those who like the aforementioned "gritty" experience) the ability to spool out the space [I]between[/I] character levels significantly, meaning those who want slow advancement but not [I]zero[/I] advancement can have a better experience overall, and even folks that want relatively quick advancement can smooth out the process of gaining levels to some extent, softening the sharp, digital gap between levels. I will not stop advocating for (and this is very important) [B][I]well-made[/I][/B] "novice" levels. Such a system is one of the incredibly rare "have your cake and eat it too" situations, where [I]everyone[/I] benefits, I guess with the sole exception of the designers, who have a new system to draft up and test. But I think that's well worth the substantial and pervasive benefits. [/QUOTE]

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