Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 9337452" data-attributes="member: 6689464">Well, I do rather like -and prefer- subclass choice at first level. First, because subclass doesn't add that much new powers/options to be &quot;overwhelming&quot;, and second because subclasses aren't only defining to character, they also enable characters to be played. For example, there are maybe enough battlemaster maneuvers to have a passable lazylord if you squint, but even if the resulting character was fun to play, having to go through two levels of &quot;killing machine&quot; to &quot;helpess cheerleader&quot; is too abrupt of a departure. Similarly, you currently can have a celestial warlock or divine sorcerer be a party's primary healer, because it is a choice you get at first level, and moving that to third level means you cannot be that, because then you need the party to either go two levels without a primary healer or then to force someone else to do&nbsp; it for two levels only for them to relinquish the role to you. Or maybe you have to play a boring cleric for these two levels and then retire the character once the party reaches the required level. (Which might be off the table if the group is into &quot;all new PCs need to start at first level&quot;)Also, remember the scout and how it could be a passable spellless Ranger if not for the fact that you suddenly shift from thief to naturey warrior in the middle of the campaign?&nbsp; Yes, some classes have lame almost imperceptible subclasses, and in that case delaying the choice is fine, but for some classes, subclass is a beefy part of the character and it alters the way you play that PC. In these cases, it is a bummer having to wait to play the character you actually want to play. And as mentioned, it isn't a matter of power, but of theme. Heck, having the choice delayed might actually remove the possibility of you actually geting to play the character at all, because party logistics and dynamics need to be established from day one, and not being able to have your character perform the role from day one means you miss out on it entirely.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoonSong, post: 9337452, member: 6689464"] Well, I do rather like -and prefer- subclass choice at first level. First, because subclass doesn't add that much new powers/options to be "overwhelming", and second because subclasses aren't only defining to character, they also enable characters to be played. For example, there are maybe enough battlemaster maneuvers to have a passable lazylord if you squint, but even if the resulting character was fun to play, having to go through two levels of "killing machine" to "helpess cheerleader" is too abrupt of a departure. Similarly, you currently can have a celestial warlock or divine sorcerer be a party's primary healer, because it is a choice you get at first level, and moving that to third level means you cannot be that, because then you need the party to either go two levels without a primary healer or then to force someone else to do it for two levels only for them to relinquish the role to you. Or maybe you have to play a boring cleric for these two levels and then retire the character once the party reaches the required level. (Which might be off the table if the group is into "all new PCs need to start at first level") Also, remember the scout and how it could be a passable spellless Ranger if not for the fact that you suddenly shift from thief to naturey warrior in the middle of the campaign? Yes, some classes have lame almost imperceptible subclasses, and in that case delaying the choice is fine, but for some classes, subclass is a beefy part of the character and it alters the way you play that PC. In these cases, it is a bummer having to wait to play the character you actually want to play. And as mentioned, it isn't a matter of power, but of theme. Heck, having the choice delayed might actually remove the possibility of you actually geting to play the character at all, because party logistics and dynamics need to be established from day one, and not being able to have your character perform the role from day one means you miss out on it entirely. [/QUOTE]

Verification