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What I want: 17 books or book series (and two boxes) for a Third Golden Age
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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 6371122" data-attributes="member: 6688049"><p>Almost anything can be "highly debatable".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What's good for the game and its culture, is not always the same as what's lucrative for a particular economic body who is stewarding the IP of that game. There is of course an interplay between economic success and cultural flourishing, but they're not synonymous.</p><p></p><p>Don't you think that Paizo is a quality steward of the D&D game? If the Hasbro faction of D&D stewarship fails and falls, then I say: so what? Pathfinder and Paizo would continue--it's D&D under a different name.</p><p></p><p>Still, I have suggested ways for Hasbro and the D&D brand to not sink. They are unorthodox suggestions, yet they are expressed with goodwill.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Is this Adkinson's perspective?</p><p></p><p>Is this your perspective? ...That Dancey was just a loose canon who endangered the fiscal assets of his employer?</p><p></p><p>What is your personal wish? Do you really prefer that the 3E RPG blossoming never happened?</p><p></p><p>I remember the end of TSR. If it hadn't been for the OGL, 3E may well have been only a minor success, with D&D shrinking into an even smaller hobby, like wargaming or Shrinky-Dinks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Do you have a source for this?</p><p></p><p>I remember a WotC person saying that the 3.0E core books sold very very well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel this is an overstatement. If I listed the thousands of d20 products that were published from 2000 to 2003, I suspect that the majority of them were interesting.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I know that there were some dregs, yet I prefer that WotC had initiated a "Quality Mark" association with publishers who produced quality work (Green Ronin, Malhavoc), instead of disrupting the continuity of the 3.0 by spurring everyone to buy the rulebooks all over again. That's when I stopped patronizing D&D.</p><p></p><p>I'm not speaking only in hindsight. I suggest that in early 2015, Hasbro/WotC initiate a Quality Mark Association (in partnership with Hasbro's associates such as Paizo, Green Ronin, and Necromancer; not just with Hasbro's contractors such as Kobold Press and Sasquatch Studios), while at the same time releasing the 5E SRD in a way that is at least as open as the OGL.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A Quality Mark Association would be a way to educate game distributors, game stores, and game customers/participants.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's an old Dancey truism. It was true for TSR. Yet every truism has its limits. It is possible for enthusiasm and interest to blossom again even within existing TRPG hobbyists, like it did during the evolution from 2E and 3E. And it is even possible for the TRPG hobby and culture to grow. Despite the prevailing wisdom that TRPG is only a small geeky subculture, TRPG culture could grow and grow throughout this century. In that case, more and more diversity could be supported.</p><p></p><p>Catan is laying the groundwork for more and more people to become potential TRPGers. More and more people can now stomach a little more gearheadness and story-based play.</p><p></p><p>(IN FACT: And I thank you for this idea! If I were head of the D&D brand team--I would vigorously seek out a licensing agreement from Kosmos games to make a D&D Settlers of Catan roleplaying game.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not a bad thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the kind of thinking which turns me off to the D&D culture-as-it-exists.</p><p></p><p>If the "real D&D" fell, then Pathfinder and others would take up the mantle.</p><p></p><p>I am more concerned with the health, flourishing, diversity, and open creativity of the D&D and TRPG culture, than with the shareholder returns for the economic entity which holds the words "Dungeons & Dragons" and its multiverse of worlds.</p><p></p><p>Mirtek, if the thinking you express in this post were to become the prevalent thinking among TRPG participants, then I would remove myself from participating in, or patronizing, that thoroughly corporatized culture. I would leave the D&D Brand and the D&D Worlds (even my beloved Mystara) as dead.</p><p></p><p>I'm waiting until spring of 2015 to see whether Hasbro D&D has walked away from my values, or whether there can be rapprochement. The crux will be in the details of if and how Open are the system and its worlds.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dungeonosophy, post: 6371122, member: 6688049"] Almost anything can be "highly debatable". What's good for the game and its culture, is not always the same as what's lucrative for a particular economic body who is stewarding the IP of that game. There is of course an interplay between economic success and cultural flourishing, but they're not synonymous. Don't you think that Paizo is a quality steward of the D&D game? If the Hasbro faction of D&D stewarship fails and falls, then I say: so what? Pathfinder and Paizo would continue--it's D&D under a different name. Still, I have suggested ways for Hasbro and the D&D brand to not sink. They are unorthodox suggestions, yet they are expressed with goodwill. Is this Adkinson's perspective? Is this your perspective? ...That Dancey was just a loose canon who endangered the fiscal assets of his employer? What is your personal wish? Do you really prefer that the 3E RPG blossoming never happened? I remember the end of TSR. If it hadn't been for the OGL, 3E may well have been only a minor success, with D&D shrinking into an even smaller hobby, like wargaming or Shrinky-Dinks. Do you have a source for this? I remember a WotC person saying that the 3.0E core books sold very very well. I feel this is an overstatement. If I listed the thousands of d20 products that were published from 2000 to 2003, I suspect that the majority of them were interesting. Yeah, I know that there were some dregs, yet I prefer that WotC had initiated a "Quality Mark" association with publishers who produced quality work (Green Ronin, Malhavoc), instead of disrupting the continuity of the 3.0 by spurring everyone to buy the rulebooks all over again. That's when I stopped patronizing D&D. I'm not speaking only in hindsight. I suggest that in early 2015, Hasbro/WotC initiate a Quality Mark Association (in partnership with Hasbro's associates such as Paizo, Green Ronin, and Necromancer; not just with Hasbro's contractors such as Kobold Press and Sasquatch Studios), while at the same time releasing the 5E SRD in a way that is at least as open as the OGL. A Quality Mark Association would be a way to educate game distributors, game stores, and game customers/participants. That's an old Dancey truism. It was true for TSR. Yet every truism has its limits. It is possible for enthusiasm and interest to blossom again even within existing TRPG hobbyists, like it did during the evolution from 2E and 3E. And it is even possible for the TRPG hobby and culture to grow. Despite the prevailing wisdom that TRPG is only a small geeky subculture, TRPG culture could grow and grow throughout this century. In that case, more and more diversity could be supported. Catan is laying the groundwork for more and more people to become potential TRPGers. More and more people can now stomach a little more gearheadness and story-based play. (IN FACT: And I thank you for this idea! If I were head of the D&D brand team--I would vigorously seek out a licensing agreement from Kosmos games to make a D&D Settlers of Catan roleplaying game.) That's not a bad thing. This is the kind of thinking which turns me off to the D&D culture-as-it-exists. If the "real D&D" fell, then Pathfinder and others would take up the mantle. I am more concerned with the health, flourishing, diversity, and open creativity of the D&D and TRPG culture, than with the shareholder returns for the economic entity which holds the words "Dungeons & Dragons" and its multiverse of worlds. Mirtek, if the thinking you express in this post were to become the prevalent thinking among TRPG participants, then I would remove myself from participating in, or patronizing, that thoroughly corporatized culture. I would leave the D&D Brand and the D&D Worlds (even my beloved Mystara) as dead. I'm waiting until spring of 2015 to see whether Hasbro D&D has walked away from my values, or whether there can be rapprochement. The crux will be in the details of if and how Open are the system and its worlds. [/QUOTE]
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