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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6238349" data-attributes="member: 95493">In my personal case, it probably would have affected very little. I would have continued to use the products I liked and ignored the 4e and TOB supplements entirely. As a large sub-system I think it would have either failed or seen very limited use, instead of being a large sub-section of the DnD host. While there are certainly games I have played in or read about online, most do not extensively use magic of incarnum, most things from unearthed arcana, tome of battle, or any other major supplement like them. Most faded to obscurity or are picked for very niche games, when the DM is curious in trying them out.The most successful of those approaches have been psionics (which existed before 3.5), tome of battle (a hybrid of 4e and 3e) which is very divisive, and the WP variant from unearthed arcana (again very divisive though in different ways, more along playstyle/groups). So, I suspect that there would have been people who swear by the 4e classes, just as many do to ToB, but I suspect that as a whole it would not have been very successful unless it came to dominate the product lines. Basically, unless they did 4e in everything BUT name.Now, again, if this had happened then PF would not have been a thing as there would have been no reason for paizo to change their lines - didn't we already discuss this recently (last month or two at most) about how paizo decided to go ahead with PF after seeing what 4e (didn't) have to offer?No. My question isn't how much or little it would have played. I'm more curious what the 4e players and diehards would be doing. Would they have tried to use a cribbed together 4e system, would there be a 4e pure system developed (a la pathfinder) and been successful? I don't know. It seems like many, very many, seemed to jump to 4e when they were casual enough not to care, or when they did care enough but disliked what 3.5 had to offer. To this end, I summon  @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>  to try and add some insight.</blockquote>

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