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Community
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What if 5e had 2 types of roles
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5700130" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>No, it is why it is highly limited, if you stop there. See what I said about chaos and melee in posts #57 and #60. </p><p> </p><p>Since none of us have been involved in life and death melee with swords, axe-wielding orcs, and fireballs, we have to extrapolate from what we know, and apply that to heroic fantasy characters of extremely significant competence. That last bit is why starting from fencing is one very limited but still relevant point of discussion.</p><p> </p><p>In its own way, the Roman legion is just as limited but still relevant as an example. The Romans trained their legions that way, in part, because it was a very effective way of building on their own strength while compensating for their weaknesses. It started as a largely agrarian militia. Close order formation, drill, discipline, a large shield, a simple throwing spear, and a short blade used entirely for thrusting--that trumps even the phalanx for their purpose. But even the Roman soliders on the wings often used different weapons--that is, the highly trained veterans that had time to develop other useful skills.</p><p> </p><p>The other problem--everything you said about Int in that fight can be said almost equally about raw Str or Dex. To the extent that raw Int and Wis is almost entirely trumped by training, luck, etc. in such a brutal melee, then physical stats are too. In fact, they are trumped more here than anywhere. 30 seconds isn't long enough for even me to get winded in a crisis, and I'm a middle-aged, average height, average strength guy lugging around 30 extra pounds. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> OTOH, to the extent that one can bring to bear raw superior capabilities, then "keeping your head" while everyone around you is not, is of immense value.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5700130, member: 54877"] No, it is why it is highly limited, if you stop there. See what I said about chaos and melee in posts #57 and #60. Since none of us have been involved in life and death melee with swords, axe-wielding orcs, and fireballs, we have to extrapolate from what we know, and apply that to heroic fantasy characters of extremely significant competence. That last bit is why starting from fencing is one very limited but still relevant point of discussion. In its own way, the Roman legion is just as limited but still relevant as an example. The Romans trained their legions that way, in part, because it was a very effective way of building on their own strength while compensating for their weaknesses. It started as a largely agrarian militia. Close order formation, drill, discipline, a large shield, a simple throwing spear, and a short blade used entirely for thrusting--that trumps even the phalanx for their purpose. But even the Roman soliders on the wings often used different weapons--that is, the highly trained veterans that had time to develop other useful skills. The other problem--everything you said about Int in that fight can be said almost equally about raw Str or Dex. To the extent that raw Int and Wis is almost entirely trumped by training, luck, etc. in such a brutal melee, then physical stats are too. In fact, they are trumped more here than anywhere. 30 seconds isn't long enough for even me to get winded in a crisis, and I'm a middle-aged, average height, average strength guy lugging around 30 extra pounds. :) OTOH, to the extent that one can bring to bear raw superior capabilities, then "keeping your head" while everyone around you is not, is of immense value. [/QUOTE]
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