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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5701161" data-attributes="member: 54877">Unlike the combat roles, I think several different things can work here, but some of them are mutually exclusive, and each set would have somewhat different implications for skills, feats, powers, etc.&nbsp;For example, you could have a &quot;Lore&quot; role. If this guy takes &quot;face&quot; abilities, then his negotiation is from a basis of having information. But he has the same kind of knowledge edge when trying to find a path in the wilderness or disabling traps or whatever skills and other abilities he gets. &nbsp;Several people have already objected that non-combat roles would be nothing more than a theme. And if kept too open-ended, they would be. For it to be a role, it has to carve out some rather wide territory that is different than the roles next to it, and has a boundary. (Failure to do this was why the initial controller role was a bit off.)&nbsp;So &quot;Lore&quot; might or might not work. To know if it will, we need the rest of the set. One obvious parallel but different way is the &quot;Gear&quot; guy. He gets and maintains good equipment, and knows how to use it. Then you might do other roles focused on &quot;Magic&quot; or &quot;Inherent Abilities&quot;.&nbsp;I'm being vague here, because this is just an example, and I think those are all probably too broad for good non-combat roles. Ideally, you'll have around 8-10 roles that carve up the most common archetypes, with boundaries but overlapping in the skills associated. (You might have more than that as purely secondary roles.) &nbsp;I don't think they can be properly evaluated except as part of such a set, and then a big part of that evaluation is the set as a whole.&nbsp;Edit:&nbsp; One negative test.&nbsp; If any role in the set is worded/explained such that most everyone expects it to have a particular skill or particular high ability score or such, then it is probably off.&nbsp; If a &quot;Lore&quot; character can be built on Int or Wis, you are OK for this test.&nbsp; If only one or the other, not.&nbsp; If your &quot;Infiltrator&quot; could get into places with Dex/Stealth or Cha/Bluff, OK.&nbsp; If only one, no.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5701161, member: 54877"] Unlike the combat roles, I think several different things can work here, but some of them are mutually exclusive, and each set would have somewhat different implications for skills, feats, powers, etc. For example, you could have a "Lore" role. If this guy takes "face" abilities, then his negotiation is from a basis of having information. But he has the same kind of knowledge edge when trying to find a path in the wilderness or disabling traps or whatever skills and other abilities he gets. Several people have already objected that non-combat roles would be nothing more than a theme. And if kept too open-ended, they would be. For it to be a role, it has to carve out some rather wide territory that is different than the roles next to it, and has a boundary. (Failure to do this was why the initial controller role was a bit off.) So "Lore" might or might not work. To know if it will, we need the rest of the set. One obvious parallel but different way is the "Gear" guy. He gets and maintains good equipment, and knows how to use it. Then you might do other roles focused on "Magic" or "Inherent Abilities". I'm being vague here, because this is just an example, and I think those are all probably too broad for good non-combat roles. Ideally, you'll have around 8-10 roles that carve up the most common archetypes, with boundaries but overlapping in the skills associated. (You might have more than that as purely secondary roles.) I don't think they can be properly evaluated except as part of such a set, and then a big part of that evaluation is the set as a whole. Edit: One negative test. If any role in the set is worded/explained such that most everyone expects it to have a particular skill or particular high ability score or such, then it is probably off. If a "Lore" character can be built on Int or Wis, you are OK for this test. If only one or the other, not. If your "Infiltrator" could get into places with Dex/Stealth or Cha/Bluff, OK. If only one, no. [/QUOTE]

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