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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grydan" data-source="post: 5702122" data-attributes="member: 79401">While I'm fond enough of the role system that the idea of having a variation of it for non-combat roles is appealing, I find myself in agreement with KarinsDad here that it may be adding unnecessary complication for little gain.I think what I'd rather see is something along these lines:- All characters, regardless of class, get training in the same number of skills. - All classes have access to all skills.- Each class would continue to have some skills that they're automatically trained in, though the number would remain low (two seems about right), and again, each class would have the same number.Assuming no radical departures in terms of how ability scores work, and how they interact with the skill system, you'd still have certain classes tend to be better at "their" skills than other classes. While anyone could choose to be trained in Stealth, for instance, high Dexterity classes like Rogues would tend to be stealthier.If that doesn't give enough distinction between classes, there could be a few minor variations added to the mix. Maybe Rogues get an extra +1 for being trained. Maybe Bards get a bonus to untrained skills. Maybe Wizards get a bonus to all of the knowledge skills, while Fighters get a bonus to physical ones. Maybe toss in some rerolls, or (though I think it's a bit fiddly) use the Thief's "natural 20 counts as two successes". Limiting a class (like the poor Fighter, great in so many other ways, weak in this respect) in the number of skills it can be trained in without expending further resources seems like a vestigial remainder of the trade-off game between combat vs. non-combat utility.I love fighters, but when it comes to skill challenges, they're the ones most likely to be either trying to sit out, or reduced to Aid Another (which now carries the risk of penalizing the other player's roll). I can't think of any particularly good reason why the Fighter should be trained in so few skills.Opening up the list for everyone allows for more variation, and for things like the Fighter-Diplomat, the Athlete-Wizard, the Rogue who snuck into the wizard academy's library and read all of the good books, the Ranger who grew up on the mean streets before heading into the wilds, and the Cleric whose religious fervour is intense to the point of being intimidating. All without expending the resources of the feat system, which is overburdened.Feats could still be used for training in additional skills, or focus in trained ones, for players who like the idea of their characters having a broader or deeper skill set.(Admittedly, the background system covers one of my areas of complaint by opening up additional class skills, but it doesn't cover all of them.)</blockquote>

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