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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8725138" data-attributes="member: 22779">Again I have to say that I’m just not having these experiences.But simply theory crafting does not constitute proof of a problem because theory crafting is based on all sorts of explicit and implicit assumptions. If you want to show that a class is underperforming, you actually need to TEST these theories. Otherwise your theories are just that. Possible problems. If you want to be taken seriously you need to do the work. Track round by round actions of multiple groups under multiple dms over a range of levels. It’s easy to come up with problems. Especially in a system like 5e where the math is pretty opaque and loose. The reason we’re not seeing a lot of movement to tweak classes is far more likely because the problems that people do have are a lot more tied to that table than the game itself. It’s no different than watching people talk about how ADnD characters were so much weaker. Really? Straight out of the PHB 2e, I can make a fighter that can kill trolls in one round at first level. No cheese. No house rules. Just straight up 2e rules. To me, adnd combat was DnD with training wheels. Parties would plough through encounters that would be instant death for a 3e or later group. But I also realize that so much of this is based solely on my own experience. So I can only talk about the game I played which most certainly isn’t the game you played. It really helps to keep that in mind.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8725138, member: 22779"] Again I have to say that I’m just not having these experiences. But simply theory crafting does not constitute proof of a problem because theory crafting is based on all sorts of explicit and implicit assumptions. If you want to show that a class is underperforming, you actually need to TEST these theories. Otherwise your theories are just that. Possible problems. If you want to be taken seriously you need to do the work. Track round by round actions of multiple groups under multiple dms over a range of levels. It’s easy to come up with problems. Especially in a system like 5e where the math is pretty opaque and loose. The reason we’re not seeing a lot of movement to tweak classes is far more likely because the problems that people do have are a lot more tied to that table than the game itself. It’s no different than watching people talk about how ADnD characters were so much weaker. Really? Straight out of the PHB 2e, I can make a fighter that can kill trolls in one round at first level. No cheese. No house rules. Just straight up 2e rules. To me, adnd combat was DnD with training wheels. Parties would plough through encounters that would be instant death for a 3e or later group. But I also realize that so much of this is based solely on my own experience. So I can only talk about the game I played which most certainly isn’t the game you played. It really helps to keep that in mind. [/QUOTE]

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