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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8725773" data-attributes="member: 7026617">When the company dumps a version of a game, and does its best to distance themselves from it, I have to conclude your definition of &quot;success&quot; and theirs is not the same.If you're under the impression I'm hostile to 4e, let me disabuse you; it was a better designed game than either the edition that came before or the one that came after, but it very much was received with as much hostility as 3e before it had, without the benefit 3e had of bringing back people who had long left D&amp;D; further, a much larger number of people who were hostile to it were able to, effectively, jump ship to PF1e in a way 2e and earlier fans had no equivalent ability to do.&nbsp; As such, from the POV of at least parts of WOTC it was clearly an error, and their attempt to do what they thought of as correcting course in it did not work well enough to suit them.&nbsp; That's exceedingly obvious from the way the lead up to 5e was handled.This is entirely consistent with my argument that the success of D&amp;D editions from the viewpoint of the company is not particularly related to the quality of the design; its got much more to do with their view on brand success and carry-forward of an extent fanbase while growing new members of it.&nbsp; Not annoying that fanbase is far more relevant to them than any actual design success; all they need is for it to be &quot;good enough&quot; not to chase them off, and to that degree 5e has obviously succeeded.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8725773, member: 7026617"] When the company dumps a version of a game, and does its best to distance themselves from it, I have to conclude your definition of "success" and theirs is not the same. If you're under the impression I'm hostile to 4e, let me disabuse you; it was a better designed game than either the edition that came before or the one that came after, but it very much was received with as much hostility as 3e before it had, without the benefit 3e had of bringing back people who had long left D&D; further, a much larger number of people who were hostile to it were able to, effectively, jump ship to PF1e in a way 2e and earlier fans had no equivalent ability to do. As such, from the POV of at least parts of WOTC it was clearly an error, and their attempt to do what they thought of as correcting course in it did not work well enough to suit them. That's exceedingly obvious from the way the lead up to 5e was handled. This is entirely consistent with my argument that the success of D&D editions from the viewpoint of the company is not particularly related to the quality of the design; its got much more to do with their view on brand success and carry-forward of an extent fanbase while growing new members of it. Not annoying that fanbase is far more relevant to them than any actual design success; all they need is for it to be "good enough" not to chase them off, and to that degree 5e has obviously succeeded. [/QUOTE]

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