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<blockquote data-quote="Frozen_Heart" data-source="post: 8731437" data-attributes="member: 7029687">I'd be fine with that if subclasses actually had a big impact on how the main class played. But for many classes the subclass is this tiny flavour thing.So any cool mechanics which would suit that character concept need to be watered down, delayed to high level, or removed entirely in order to work. Making them immensely unsatisfying to play compared to a dedicated class.Which is why we still have weekly 'arcanegishwen?' thread despite there being an absolute ton of arcane gish subclasses. Because not a single one of them plays as nicely as that of a full class in prior editions.It's why we have weekly 'warlordwen?' threads as well. Because there isn't a single support focused martial class, and trying to glue it onto fighter means that you're still better off running in and hitting things. Which isn't what a warlord is meant to do.I definitely don't want to go back to 3.5 levels of classes. That was just awful. But for me, 20 classes or a bit under would be ideal. With warlord, swordmage, psion, and beastmaster/summoner deserving their own concepts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Frozen_Heart, post: 8731437, member: 7029687"] I'd be fine with that if subclasses actually had a big impact on how the main class played. But for many classes the subclass is this tiny flavour thing. So any cool mechanics which would suit that character concept need to be watered down, delayed to high level, or removed entirely in order to work. Making them immensely unsatisfying to play compared to a dedicated class. Which is why we still have weekly 'arcanegishwen?' thread despite there being an absolute ton of arcane gish subclasses. Because not a single one of them plays as nicely as that of a full class in prior editions. It's why we have weekly 'warlordwen?' threads as well. Because there isn't a single support focused martial class, and trying to glue it onto fighter means that you're still better off running in and hitting things. Which isn't what a warlord is meant to do. I definitely don't want to go back to 3.5 levels of classes. That was just awful. But for me, 20 classes or a bit under would be ideal. With warlord, swordmage, psion, and beastmaster/summoner deserving their own concepts. [/QUOTE]

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