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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8559753" data-attributes="member: 84112">unless it is used as a reason to NOT have things like it in a Paper and Dice TTRPG... then it is BOTH bad (AKA shouldn't be done) and Inflammatory (trying to enrage fans of)the only facts we have is that WotC has told us 3e out sold 2e, 3.5 out sold 3.0. 4e out sold 3.5.  Pathfinder took some of D&Ds wind splitting the fan base for 3.5 into 2 groups (PF and 4e... although even that is an oversimplification because there is a ven diagram of people who used both). 5e has out performed every previous edition and has created what seems to be the best market for TTRPGs. that's it... those are the facts.now some like 4e.  some like 3e.  some still think anything after 1e was a sell out (yeah, atleast in 2018 there was a 1e game running in my area that half the players refused to call anything after 1990 D&D),   Most of us here like 5e and are interested in improving on our favorite editions. anything about 'better as a video game' or 'was too hard to learn' or even (IMO a true one) 'Casters have too much supremacy' are opinions based on the above facts plus our own views... '4e failed' is really code for 'i didn't like 4e'</blockquote>