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<blockquote data-quote="NoWayJose" data-source="post: 5527215" data-attributes="member: 84810">But there's so many examples of where Charisma isn't necessary. A sullen withdrawn stonecarver born with Stoneshape sorcery who couldn't convince a drunk guy to go a party could nevertheless shape stone with great ease and precision. And an outgoing popular stonecarver who could convince a drunk guy to go to a party is NOT inherently any better at shaping stone. There's no good way to model this and many other similar scenarios with the arbitrary high Cha = raw high power.&nbsp;My problem is not that 'forcing willpower on the world' is the basis behind sorcery per se. My problem is that 'forcing willpower on the world' is arbitrarily entangled with Charisma score, leadership and personality, which can but often do not have anything to do with each other in context of sorcery.&nbsp;Charisma = force of willpower does not stack with a cleric's Wisdom bonus when casting offensive divine spells, nor does it stack with a wizard's Intelligence bonus when imposing his spells on the world. A highly intelligent wizard presumably constructs more damaging fireballs than an average intelligent wizard, but the intelligence of the sorcerer is irrelevant when constructing that exact same fireball. So it's all rather arbitrary, more rules first, then fiction first. For me, the sorcerer-Charisma justification is simply more arbitrary and questionable than the rest.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NoWayJose, post: 5527215, member: 84810"] But there's so many examples of where Charisma isn't necessary. A sullen withdrawn stonecarver born with Stoneshape sorcery who couldn't convince a drunk guy to go a party could nevertheless shape stone with great ease and precision. And an outgoing popular stonecarver who could convince a drunk guy to go to a party is NOT inherently any better at shaping stone. There's no good way to model this and many other similar scenarios with the arbitrary high Cha = raw high power. My problem is not that 'forcing willpower on the world' is the basis behind sorcery per se. My problem is that 'forcing willpower on the world' is arbitrarily entangled with Charisma score, leadership and personality, which can but often do not have anything to do with each other in context of sorcery. Charisma = force of willpower does not stack with a cleric's Wisdom bonus when casting offensive divine spells, nor does it stack with a wizard's Intelligence bonus when imposing his spells on the world. A highly intelligent wizard presumably constructs more damaging fireballs than an average intelligent wizard, but the intelligence of the sorcerer is irrelevant when constructing that exact same fireball. So it's all rather arbitrary, more rules first, then fiction first. For me, the sorcerer-Charisma justification is simply more arbitrary and questionable than the rest. [/QUOTE]

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