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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7505521" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!First, I have no problem with either approach. The current x2 is fine for our group, and for me it gives a distinct mechanical slap-in-the-face to everyone at the table that the Rogue REALLY knows this skill AND is just plain ol' naturally good at it. Seeing as the Rogue only gets two skills to start with that have this bonus, it really isn't a problem.That said, just having a set bonus for Expertise does cut down on the sometimes rather extreme differences that can occure between PC's.Second, I'd just like to point out you are comparing Apples to Oranges here. The AC's for most creatures tend to fall into the 12 to 18 range, with higher-danger creatures getting up around 19 to 22 or so. Extreme high-AC opponents, like the Terrasque, has what, a 25? So for the vast majority of the PC's &quot;encounters&quot;, he's going to have to hit AC 16 as a &quot;general target&quot;. The bonuses you need to hit that are, well, no more than -4. Even with no bonus you're still hitting that target number about 25% of the time (right?).With the DC's for picking locks, sneaking, climbing, perceiving secret doors, or deducing where the secret compartment is on the elaborate desk...the DC's tend to be higher. A usual &quot;default&quot; DC for my games is 10 or 12. If there is anything more tricky about it, it goes to 15. If it is also had specific things done to make it even more difficult/confusing, it goes up to 17 or 20. For things that were &quot;done&quot; by a professional who really knew what they were doing, we are looking at DC's in the 22, 25 or even 27 range.The bottom line is...&quot;regular&quot; DC's go up 'higher' than &quot;regular&quot; AC's tend to. Also, multiple Fighters can attack the same creature...who also has HP's, btw...where you can't normally get multiple Thieves to pick the same lock...which doesn't have HP's (e.g., success against it is binary; yes/no, based on one roll). So succeeding at the task for a Thief should, imnsho, be more common than a Sharpshooter fighter succeeding at hitting the same target number (AC) of a monster.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pming, post: 7505521, member: 45197"] Hiya! First, I have no problem with either approach. The current x2 is fine for our group, and for me it gives a distinct mechanical slap-in-the-face to everyone at the table that the Rogue [I]REALLY [/I]knows this skill AND is just plain ol' naturally good at it. Seeing as the Rogue only gets two skills to start with that have this bonus, it really isn't a problem. That said, just having a set bonus for Expertise does cut down on the sometimes rather extreme differences that can occure between PC's. Second, I'd just like to point out you are comparing Apples to Oranges here. The AC's for most creatures tend to fall into the 12 to 18 range, with higher-danger creatures getting up around 19 to 22 or so. Extreme high-AC opponents, like the Terrasque, has what, a 25? So for the vast majority of the PC's "encounters", he's going to have to hit AC 16 as a "general target". The bonuses you need to hit that are, well, no more than -4. Even with no bonus you're still hitting that target number about 25% of the time (right?). With the DC's for picking locks, sneaking, climbing, perceiving secret doors, or deducing where the secret compartment is on the elaborate desk...the DC's tend to be higher. A usual "default" DC for my games is 10 or 12. If there is anything more tricky about it, it goes to 15. If it is also had specific things done to make it even more difficult/confusing, it goes up to 17 or 20. For things that were "done" by a professional who really knew what they were doing, we are looking at DC's in the 22, 25 or even 27 range. The bottom line is..."regular" DC's go up 'higher' than "regular" AC's tend to. Also, multiple Fighters can attack the same creature...who also has HP's, btw...where you can't normally get multiple Thieves to pick the same lock...which doesn't have HP's (e.g., success against it is binary; yes/no, based on one roll). So succeeding at the task for a Thief should, imnsho, be more common than a Sharpshooter fighter succeeding at hitting the same target number (AC) of a monster. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]

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