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What if Expertise were a simple +2?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7507765" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I admit, I do find that a bit surprising. Sure, the narrative doesn't change if we were reading the book or watching the movie, but we are playing a game. It may take more skill to build a character, but if I don't get to use their special abilities they were built with... what's the point? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with this to a degree, but what is the man with a minimum of 23 to do in a world where 99% of the things he encounters are DC 15 and 20? Let's take that expertise out for a moment. Your minimum is now 19, you still will breeze through the majority of locks and traps in the world. So... why invest in it? Why care about expertise? Unless you are encounter something of mythic levels reliable talent plus proficiency is more than enough. And then you can let the cleric or bard whose character concept is buffing to shine as well if you encounter something truly challenging. </p><p></p><p>Your choice has made no impact unless I try to challenge you, but to challenge you I need challenges beyond the scope a level 11 character is supposed to operate at. Heck, even by level 18, when you should be operating on the most mythic of scales, the bonus is +17 with a minimum of 27 (+18 of if you can break the 20 cap), throw some guidance, enhance ability and a bardic inspiration on the pile and I have to seriously ask "What is the DC of the lock on the Gates to Hell" because you'll average a 39 on that roll. </p><p></p><p>Picking the lock on some cosmic prison meant to hold gods is cool, but you're <u>average</u> is nearly ten points higher than the highest DC brought up in game. That means you have almost a 50/50 shot. Oh, unless you happen to be level 20, then just guarantee a minimum result of 39, average of 45 or 50. Where is the tension? Where is the excitement? </p><p></p><p>If you can't fail, what's the point of even having the obstacle exist in the first place?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7507765, member: 6801228"] I admit, I do find that a bit surprising. Sure, the narrative doesn't change if we were reading the book or watching the movie, but we are playing a game. It may take more skill to build a character, but if I don't get to use their special abilities they were built with... what's the point? I agree with this to a degree, but what is the man with a minimum of 23 to do in a world where 99% of the things he encounters are DC 15 and 20? Let's take that expertise out for a moment. Your minimum is now 19, you still will breeze through the majority of locks and traps in the world. So... why invest in it? Why care about expertise? Unless you are encounter something of mythic levels reliable talent plus proficiency is more than enough. And then you can let the cleric or bard whose character concept is buffing to shine as well if you encounter something truly challenging. Your choice has made no impact unless I try to challenge you, but to challenge you I need challenges beyond the scope a level 11 character is supposed to operate at. Heck, even by level 18, when you should be operating on the most mythic of scales, the bonus is +17 with a minimum of 27 (+18 of if you can break the 20 cap), throw some guidance, enhance ability and a bardic inspiration on the pile and I have to seriously ask "What is the DC of the lock on the Gates to Hell" because you'll average a 39 on that roll. Picking the lock on some cosmic prison meant to hold gods is cool, but you're [U]average[/U] is nearly ten points higher than the highest DC brought up in game. That means you have almost a 50/50 shot. Oh, unless you happen to be level 20, then just guarantee a minimum result of 39, average of 45 or 50. Where is the tension? Where is the excitement? If you can't fail, what's the point of even having the obstacle exist in the first place? [/QUOTE]
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What if Expertise were a simple +2?
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