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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7507874" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Stupid computer crashing and erasing repliesI apologize for being lazy, but I'm not going to rewrite everything my computer erased since it is getting late down here. 1) I agree 80% doesn't feel much different, there is a sweet spot between 60% and 70% I think where skills are most fun for all involved. I have tried to introduce skill challenges with mixed results (recently had an excellent one where the players worked together to help cure an insane soldier of his madness, everyone got into it. Also recently had a travelling skill challenge that flopped hard, cause no one cared)2) If I have a party which heavily invests in out of combat skills and abilities, I don't think the proper answer to challenge them is to have more combat. I should be able to challenge them out of combat. However, with how quickly expertise and skill boosting tactics can rise I find that if I tried to keep pace I would quickly ruin suspension of disbelief. But, if I do not try and keep some level of challenge then my group begins to get bored of always succeeding. 3) High level characters ignore low level challenges, but as we've discussed with these numbers they also trivialize high level challenges. Highest DC on a rules item I can find is the Sphere of Annihilation at DC 25. Highest listed DC in the game is 30. Players can boost to the point where 35 is not difficult for them to achieve and 40 is possible. What exactly are we supposed to put in front of players who can achieve that sort of outside the system result? 4) Teleport is incredibly risky unless you are going someplace you have gone before. Having a 40% chance of damage and re-rolls which could potentially lead to a TPK is really bad. You are far better off getting mounts and traveling anyways unless things are bad enough to risk the teleport anyways. Yeah, brought up the wizard because we were talking fire spells, but this is another aspect of the problem.Players metagame, especially when they are trying to coordinate and work as a team to solve a problem you've presented to the group. They'll go around and ask who is good at a skill before trying to utilize it in a dungeon. Now, sometimes I don't let them. Person with the best persuasion skill isn't the one who tried to convince the Duchess to support their cause, so they don't get to roll instead of the person who brought it up. They can take the help action though. But, whenever someone takes expertise, well, not only do they eventually just auto-succeed, but other players will stop attempting to do that thing. It can create imbalances in the party that disincentivize people from trying things, because they know this other character will do it so much better than they will.</blockquote>

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