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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5594974" data-attributes="member: 54877">Yes, certainly in part, but with the follow up from keterys about being enough interesting ones to take. Note that it would meet my criteria to have relatively few feats, but sharply curtail how many you get.  I don't much favor this, because I think it is fun to take feats.  It would work, though. Also, since this is more or less brainstorming, I'm open to any of the ideas so far, but don't want to limit responses to those. Working within the 4E constraints, for example, it might work to get the number of feats the same, then pre-pick certain combat ones by build.  This does some of the Essential activities in a slightly different areas.  At level 2, you get weapon focus or something equally appropriate, by class/build.  At level 4, you get to pick from the list of non-combat numbers stuff.  This is an inelegant way to leave the numbers alone, but achieve some modest siloing of the char op combat feats with the other stuff.  I like it as a thought exercise, and I like it as a possible compromise solution for a more comprehensive rework, but I don't want to assume something as inelegant as that up front.  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> Here is another way to approach it, then.  Are there activities that D&D adventurers can do that are not mere number mangling, interesting enough to justify a feat selection, but not so compelling that they seem required or step on reasonable things that all D&D adventurers should be able to at least try? Personally, I think swimming fits in this niche--provided that you let non-swimmers at least flounder for awhile out of armor in reasonable water.  And provided that other feats are not so compelling that no one ever takes swimming.  That's the thing, not having negative feats as an option.  If you've got things like "swim" or "literacy", you want about half the party to at least consider taking them. And note the design danger here.  If, and boy is it a big if, you set the DCs well enough, then bigger numbers with the 1/2 level bonus and a +5 for training, does abstractly achieve that goal for swimming.  I just don't think the current DCs hit that target as well as they might. Also, I think part of the issue is me rebelling against the variableness of the d20 + mod mechanic, for people highly trained in skills.  I don't know how far that can be pushed, though, and stay true to the main game design.  People that become highly trained do things that lesser beings wouldn't even try, most of the time.  But mainly what they do is the moderately complex stuff far more reliably.  So something like getting multiple d20 rolls with more training, instead of straight plusses, fits that model a bit better. You can't do a change like this without fundamentally changing some piece of the game, however minor.  There wouldn't be any point in trying unless you wanted such a change.  It is the inadvertent side effects that are the rub. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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