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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 3120544" data-attributes="member: 35678">Cool <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Options are always good; I'll leave a few comments since it's earlier in the day now, and my brain isn't as hazy as it was last night <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I completely agree with you here <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> The totem barbarians from UA also many it great for demon/aberration cults, and you can make tons of crazy alternate classes using this method.That could work, but I just figured you'd have to change bards so much from RAW that it'd be more work than not - so you might as well disallow them. However, Heroes of Horror and Libris Mortis both have some great feats and prestigue classes which really up the terror aspect of bards. I dunno how'd you manage it, but those are some good point, IMO.My thoughts exactly. Just like if you want to run a Hyborian game where magic is rare, you need to keep the feel of the game going. Sure, RAW D&D is balanced against a certain expectation - but that expectation is thrown out the window when you get into a heavily modified and differnet campaign such as the one being expressed in this thread.Actually, given some more thought, the whole shapechange aspect of Druids works really well, and can be easily changed to aberrations! Call druids Changers instead, and rework their abilities to reflect the amorphous aberrations they take after. I think I am going to star a thread on this, in fact <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Oh yeah <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My take on this was twofold: (A) First off, both factions should have, in a perfect world, equal numbers of "Wee Jas Only" and "Ery Only" classes. Also, Ery is the god of slaughter, so he should have more militant classes, and Wee Jas should have more arcane-focused classes. Thus, Cloistered Cleric (UA)  ==  Cleric (PHB) [two priest classes]Paladin of Tyranny (UA)  ==  Paladin of Slaughter (UA) [two knight classes]Dread Necromancer (HoH)  ==  Totem Barbarian (UA) [arcane/undead vs slaughter]Archivist (HoH)  ==  Warlock (ComArc) [two different approaches to magic]Hexblade (ComWar)  ==  Hexblade (ComWar) [fits both sides]So, I don't really think the monk fits in there, for that reason, but also that I just don't see the monk meshing well with the other classes (later you do make a good point for the ninja, but I'll get to that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />).The alternate ones in UA are where it's at, but the core Pally is right outta there.While, yes, I could see the rangers being a tool of The Many, I could also see there in a more tolkienesque role of trying to keep the darkness contained in this dark world, simply trying to keep basic lines of communication and trade open. I could also see them as Aberration and demon slayers, OTOH. That's why I just kinda kept this class 'neutral' or "pick your own side", like the fighter or rogue.Good point on them being immune to undead; luckily I was in a thread in HR a while back and we came up with a good feat for rogues to take to get Sneak Attack damage. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2608772&postcount=18" target="_blank">Here's</a> the link <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I dunno about that... Sorcerers just don't seem right for the Gray Lady; she would be the goddes of magic and thus the classical 'bookish' wizard seems to fit moreso with that theme, and the 'wild' sorcerer moreso with Ery. JMHO< but that's how I'd see it.None at all, IMO. The Warlock, however, would hold a good niche in place of wizards (and, if you decide to include sorcerers, then them right alongside the warlocks).I agree; psionics wouldn't fit the theme of this campaign, and it's inclusion would be a bit redundant.I think that, alongside the PoS and PoT, Hexblades would be a great addition to both factions <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />And, if you go with my proposed Shaper class, they fit a good niche on an opposing side of that class <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think, what with their "must be chaotic or evil' prereq, they are a perfect match for The Many <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />Warmages might work, but the battle sorcerer fits it better. Personally, I wouldn't have either as they're both a bit too flashy, IMO.My thoughts too, though I didn consider them for a second. Just oen though <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Actually, the moe I read this, the more I like it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It makes sense, and they don't have to be on any one side. Great point, KM <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Their spell list is where it sucks the most, IMO - it's (again, but I did warn in my other post that there were many like this) too flashy. Heck, I even considered the dragon shaman for a bit, but it just felt like it went too 'against the grain'.Yeah, I could see this too. I kinda kept them Neutral before, but there could be agents for either side which would be beguilers <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In any case, some good considerations KM; mostly we have quite a few good ideas, IMO. Now, off to start that Shaper class, since my fancy has struck <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />cheers,--NP.S. Thanks Turanil for the props <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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