Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What if races leveled up?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="dnoonan" data-source="post: 6105997" data-attributes="member: 82545"><p>A lot of the ideas in here--and the critiques--mirror WotC R&D discussions in both the 3e and 4e eras. I think a lot of players would agree that it's cool to get "elfier" or "dwarfier" over time--although there's less agreement about whether you should <em>automatically</em> get elfier as a consequence of leveling or whether you can <em>choose</em> to do so (or choose something else instead).</p><p></p><p>Implementation is confounding, though. We tried all sorts of things for 4e--we basically created a "silo" of ever-expanding race benefits that would run through the heroic tier (at which point paragon paths would sorta "take over" that design space). </p><p></p><p>(Early 3e designs tried a bunch of things with regard to race, too. I just don't remember them as well.)</p><p></p><p>It's hard to make cool and balanced level-races that:</p><p></p><p>• Don't rely on a lot of situational modifiers (how many obscure +1s and +2s get forgotten at the average table?).</p><p>• Slightly nudge races toward their historically preferred class without making it a mandate.</p><p>• Are balanced with each other and with parallel game elements (feats, class features, etc.).</p><p>• Leave design space to make cool new classes.</p><p>• Somehow handle what it means--thematically--to be "more human." (Some races are easier to design level-ups for than others, in other words.)</p><p></p><p>And maybe the hardest one:</p><p>• Actually _deliver_ on the promise of "you are now 'elfier'" in terms of feel. After a while, an extra +1 Spot is just an incrementally bigger number on your character sheet. It doesn't deliver a <em>feel</em>.</p><p></p><p>What we wound up with was the heroic-tier racial feats. That's a low-key but straightforward implementation of the desire to get "elfier" over time. It absolutely makes racial level-ups a choice, not a given, though. </p><p></p><p>Me? I'd kinda like racial level-ups to be a given. But I don't for one second underestimate the difficulty in pulling that off.</p><p></p><p>David Noonan</p><p>DM Rampant</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dnoonan, post: 6105997, member: 82545"] A lot of the ideas in here--and the critiques--mirror WotC R&D discussions in both the 3e and 4e eras. I think a lot of players would agree that it's cool to get "elfier" or "dwarfier" over time--although there's less agreement about whether you should [I]automatically[/I] get elfier as a consequence of leveling or whether you can [I]choose[/I] to do so (or choose something else instead). Implementation is confounding, though. We tried all sorts of things for 4e--we basically created a "silo" of ever-expanding race benefits that would run through the heroic tier (at which point paragon paths would sorta "take over" that design space). (Early 3e designs tried a bunch of things with regard to race, too. I just don't remember them as well.) It's hard to make cool and balanced level-races that: • Don't rely on a lot of situational modifiers (how many obscure +1s and +2s get forgotten at the average table?). • Slightly nudge races toward their historically preferred class without making it a mandate. • Are balanced with each other and with parallel game elements (feats, class features, etc.). • Leave design space to make cool new classes. • Somehow handle what it means--thematically--to be "more human." (Some races are easier to design level-ups for than others, in other words.) And maybe the hardest one: • Actually _deliver_ on the promise of "you are now 'elfier'" in terms of feel. After a while, an extra +1 Spot is just an incrementally bigger number on your character sheet. It doesn't deliver a [I]feel[/I]. What we wound up with was the heroic-tier racial feats. That's a low-key but straightforward implementation of the desire to get "elfier" over time. It absolutely makes racial level-ups a choice, not a given, though. Me? I'd kinda like racial level-ups to be a given. But I don't for one second underestimate the difficulty in pulling that off. David Noonan DM Rampant [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What if races leveled up?
Top