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Message: <blockquote data-quote="s/LaSH" data-source="post: 488390" data-attributes="member: 6929">The biggest factor that contributed to the downfall of Rome was the position of the Emperor. No question. The split of Rome into East and West, the withdrawal of frontier troops to fight civil wars, etc; all this is due to the fact that the Emperor was the position of ultimate power, and everyone wanted that.In my opinion, external forces weren't as important as that internal dynamic. If Augustus had been the first and only Emperor, or if the Senate had imposed greater restrictions on his authority, or even if the Emperor became an elected position, the Empire would have been able to focus on its boundaries and repelled all comers.However, I don't know if a strong Rome would have conquered the world. On the first page of Gibbon's Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, it mentions that Emperor Augustus said on his death bed that Rome's borders were fine where they were, and for the most part Rome never expanded again. (I think there was one additional region they conquered, but that was it.) And do you know what the result of this was?It changed the slavery dynamic. There were no new conquests, so there were no new conquered people to become slaves. Those slaves that Rome possessed (millions of them) were suddenly valuable breeding stock, because they were the only source of new slaves. Over the next few generations, slaves became valuable and increasingly rare commodities, and in fact being a slave could well be a position of eminence.What does this non-expansionist policy mean for an elongated Rome? Two things.One, it continues indefinitely. Rome is in control of the Mediterranean basin, and their slaves continue to decline in numbers as more and more buy their freedom. By the modern day, slaves are somewhat like celebrities or royalty. However, this means that Rome runs out of labour slaves very quickly, and has to either employ vast numbers of citizens to perform drudge work (something that a Roman citizen would not enjoy), or create labour-saving devices. I suspect the latter, therefore Rome would evolve as a technological power. The Roman Renaissance comes around 900-1000AD, as the slaves run out; the industrial revolution arrives around the 1500s. Gunpowder is not immediately available, because the non-expansionist Chinese empire where it was developed millenia before has no contact with the non-expansionist Roman empire. However, intermediary forces will bring the two together between 1000 and 1500, and the two will gradually exchange technology. Neither power will pursue space travel, as it is contrary to their fixed border protocols.- Rome will probably conquer or subdue as satellites the Germanic kingdoms and the Islamic Middle-East, to prevent agression. They won't press further, and this expansion will cease by about 900AD.- The Viking colonies in Vinland will meet the Aztecs around about the rise of the Aztec empire, not its stagnant reigning days. Subsequently, both the Vikings and the Aztecs develop superior technology to what they otherwise achieved, but still finish their battles with swords. The Vikings develop a strong force in North America, probably a federation of kingdoms similar to the USA (hey, they were democrats). The Aztecs never stagnate.- By the time of the Industrial Revolution, the Vinlanders and Aztecs have become mighty powers. The world is split between four main powers: Rome and China are the mighty industrialists with huge standing armies and the best equipment, but Vinland and the Aztecs are expansionist and innovative. Vinland puts the first man in space, and the Aztecs follow suit.- The Aztecs test a nuclear weapon. Everyone else gets them by 1750. Nobody uses them after the Texas Conflict. (Which isn't actually in Texas; nukes arrived in Florida and the Vinlanders responded by scorching the Yucutan, wherupon the empires signed a treaty.)- By the 20th century, China and Rome are feeling a little whipped. Their younger cousins from 'America' have conquered the inner planets, and can rain down nuclear fire from their industrial bases in orbit. While the old empires have developed laser defences and have a small number of space stations, the new empires are terraforming Mars (and occasionally blowing each other up there too), as well as having quantum weapons (like the plasma induction antimatter disc, or the teleporting bomb). The old empires have developed power armour; the new empires have developed personal force screens, but are only starting to deploy them.Isn't that an interesting idea? I still wonder what Africa would be doing, but I've rambled on enough already.By contrast, the second option is that Rome begins to expand again. In this circumstance, I see them having their renaissance at 900AD again, but they quickly attain contact with China and have an industrial revolution in the 1300s. By the 1500s they're at war with China and have discovered Terra Nova (America), and have most of Africa as vassal states. During the 1600s they have the Industrial Revolution, and conquer the stagnant Aztec empire with machine guns. At the same time, they have developed nukes and sent cosmonauts to the Moon, and acquired China as a vassal state. By 1750 they're colonising Mars. By 1850 they're sending out interstellar probes, and by the present day the Romans have primitive FTL technology.- Slaves are dirt under this regime. The Romans are conquering the world state by state for their entire history until the 1700s, hence plenty of slaves for the citizens. Because technology can do most of what a slave can do, slaves are used for very specific purposes by their masters to make themselves feel important.- If the slaves deter scientific progress, the Romans will expand at the same rate, but never conquer China. Instead, they will turn their attention to the Aztecs and conquer them with steel swords and armour. China and Rome will feud for the next few centuries; China will begin to develop new weapons in the 1700s, like long-range artillery and steam engines, which Rome will not immediately adapt. China will carve out an Asian empire, but Rome will crush any further attempts to expand after catching up technologically. Today, technology resembles Victorian-era tech, but the engines are bigger and rarer because slaves have to do something (that's apparently the reason the Greeks never created labour-saving devices - they were scared their slaves would find something else to do).Hoo boy, this got long. Still, it's an interesting concept. I've always loved alternate history.</blockquote>

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