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Message: <blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 4974207" data-attributes="member: 25619">IIRC, orcs from vats were an invention of the movie, not the book.  And those were not orcs, but uruk-hai, the "improved" version used by Saruman, not the regular orcs/goblins used by Sauron.  There's also some debate as to whether orcs were "corrupted" versions of elves, or something else -- IIRC, Tolkien was never entirely clear on the matter, but did say that Morgoth/Sauron can't create life, which implies corruption rather than creation, and PERHAPS breeding to replace their ranks thereafter . . . either that, or the supply of orcs would have been dwindling over the ages.And in my opinion, though it's been over a decade since I last read it, one of the villains in Bree seemed like a half-orc . . . I don't recall if that term was used or not, and I might be remembering it completely wrong.As for no orc babies (or females, for that matter) "on screen" meaning that orcs don't reproduce, IIIRC the Lord of the Rings shows you only the orcs in battle and in military camps.In "Saving Private Ryan", there are no female or baby Germans -- does that mean Germans are also grown in vats?In any case, the discussion of orcs and half-orcs is orthogonal to the question of whether Dragonborn are lame.I say they are lame -- for me, it's a gut level revulsion at something that just goes too far, so I can't take it the game seriously if they are in it as PC's.To me, Dragonborn are to D&D what Kiss is to heavy metal -- so over the top that they can only be a joke.  Jokes are fine sometimes, and I've played D&D for laughs myself in the past, but nowadays I prefer to run "serious" games, and I can't take Dragonborn seriously.You say they are not lame, but fit the story you want and the real mythology you know and like.OK, I'm sure it does, but I don't see it when I see Dragonborn.And you don't see the point of orcs and half-orcs.  Trust me when I say I've had fun playing half-orcs.  Obviously, your mileage does vary.We're never going to convince each other, other than that we have different opinions and should live and let live, so let's just leave it at that.Sorry for joking around about Dragonborn.  I get it that there are people who like it and take it seriously, so the joking isn't funny for everyone.Can we both agree that spikey armor is silly?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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