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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 4974493" data-attributes="member: 32164">Wow...misconceptions abound. First, I'll deal with all the comments about orcs, half-orcs, and The Lord of the Rings and the &quot;legitimacy&quot; of Star Wars.The origin of orcs is left somewhat (intentionally?) vague. Tolkien, remember, was a staunch Roman Catholic. The Valar (the lords of Middle-Earth) were NEVER referred to as &quot;gods.&quot; They were the servants of Ilúvatar, the one above all (Yahweh, basically). In Tolkien's conception of Middle-Earth, ONLY Ilúvatar could create life. As far as the origin of Orcs, from The Silmarillion, I quote:&quot;Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise.&quot;For those who don't know, the &quot;Quendi&quot; is one of Tolkien's terms for Elves. And the &quot;Children of Ilúvatar&quot; is the collective term for Elves and Men.Now, on the subject of &quot;half-orcs,&quot; they definitely exist in The Lord of the Rings. Pippin, specifically, uses the phrase during the chapter &quot;The scouring of the Shire.&quot; The &quot;Men&quot; there (many of them at any rate) are described as &quot;orc-like&quot; or with features Tolkien associates frequently with Orcs. Another phrase used in the course of the story is &quot;Goblin-Men&quot; as distinct from orcs. Tolkien, recall, used &quot;goblin&quot; and &quot;orc&quot; as synonyms.Moving on, Star Wars ceased to be a &quot;film with a little cult following&quot; when, on its first release, it shattered box office records to date. It was a huge phenomenon almost instantaneously. A few critics didn't get it and panned it on release, and they looked almost universally foolish very shortly thereafter.On the subject of 4e, I think the more interesting thing than the game itself might be to take back one of the designers/developers (Mike Mearls, for example) who understands the math behind the system, as well as game design as a science. Introducing such a person to Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson in the early days of the hobby would be monumental. That assumes, naturally, that Gary &quot;gets it&quot; and isn't so arrogant that he disdains all advice. Which, not to speak ill of the dead, isn't exactly a foregone conclusion.Anyway, just some clarification.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 4974493, member: 32164"] Wow...misconceptions abound. First, I'll deal with all the comments about orcs, half-orcs, and [I]The Lord of the Rings[/I] and the "legitimacy" of [I]Star Wars[/I]. The origin of orcs is left somewhat (intentionally?) vague. Tolkien, remember, was a staunch Roman Catholic. The Valar (the lords of Middle-Earth) were NEVER referred to as "gods." They were the servants of Ilúvatar, the one above all (Yahweh, basically). In Tolkien's conception of Middle-Earth, ONLY Ilúvatar could create life. As far as the origin of Orcs, from [I]The Silmarillion[/I], I quote: "Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise." For those who don't know, the "Quendi" is one of Tolkien's terms for Elves. And the "Children of Ilúvatar" is the collective term for Elves and Men. Now, on the subject of "half-orcs," they definitely exist in [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i]. Pippin, specifically, uses the phrase during the chapter "The scouring of the Shire." The "Men" there (many of them at any rate) are described as "orc-like" or with features Tolkien associates frequently with Orcs. Another phrase used in the course of the story is "Goblin-Men" as distinct from orcs. Tolkien, recall, used "goblin" and "orc" as synonyms. Moving on, [i]Star Wars[/i] ceased to be a "film with a little cult following" when, on its first release, it shattered box office records to date. It was a huge phenomenon almost instantaneously. A few critics didn't get it and panned it on release, and they looked almost universally foolish very shortly thereafter. On the subject of 4e, I think the more interesting thing than the game itself might be to take back one of the designers/developers (Mike Mearls, for example) who understands the math behind the system, as well as game design as a science. Introducing such a person to Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson in the early days of the hobby would be monumental. That assumes, naturally, that Gary "gets it" and isn't so arrogant that he disdains all advice. Which, not to speak ill of the dead, isn't exactly a foregone conclusion. Anyway, just some clarification. [/QUOTE]

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