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<blockquote data-quote="kamosa" data-source="post: 1408355" data-attributes="member: 1037">I think his point was not that arbitrary death was a good thing, but that the threat of arbitrary death was a good thing.&nbsp;&nbsp; It wasn't that DM's went around killing parties with insta death spells all the time, at least not in the games I played in or DM'ed.&nbsp; It was that the players were more wary about taking on encounters because of the palpable threat of death or atleast a serious beat down.Like a good movie, the threat must be feel real, or the plot feels flat and uninteresting.&nbsp; I've played in some 3E games where this lack of threat was taken to the extreme and the game lost fun.&nbsp; Every encounter the fighter just charged and killed the bad guys, with no thought, discussion or tactics.&nbsp; Just take improved initative and power attack and you win every time.&nbsp; Now, some of that was an inexperienced DM that didn't know how to challenge a party, but some of it also rests on a system where the very experienced player running the fighter knew they were very unlikely to suffer any harsh consequenses from charging every encounter. Compare this to how this player played in 2E, where they were very carefull and tacitcal because they knew how deadly the system could turn in an instant.So, to sum up, insta death bad, threat of insta death good.&nbsp; Suspense is a good thing in D&amp;D.&nbsp; Not being able to predict sucess, but going into the adventure anyway is a good thing.&nbsp; Having players that feel a real sense of acomplishment when they pull victory from the seeming jaws of defeat is a good thing.&nbsp; Some of this is lost in a system where the encounters are so &quot;balanced&quot; that you never really worry about losing your character as a consequence of battle.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kamosa, post: 1408355, member: 1037"] I think his point was not that arbitrary death was a good thing, but that the threat of arbitrary death was a good thing. It wasn't that DM's went around killing parties with insta death spells all the time, at least not in the games I played in or DM'ed. It was that the players were more wary about taking on encounters because of the palpable threat of death or atleast a serious beat down. Like a good movie, the threat must be feel real, or the plot feels flat and uninteresting. I've played in some 3E games where this lack of threat was taken to the extreme and the game lost fun. Every encounter the fighter just charged and killed the bad guys, with no thought, discussion or tactics. Just take improved initative and power attack and you win every time. Now, some of that was an inexperienced DM that didn't know how to challenge a party, but some of it also rests on a system where the very experienced player running the fighter knew they were very unlikely to suffer any harsh consequenses from charging every encounter. Compare this to how this player played in 2E, where they were very carefull and tacitcal because they knew how deadly the system could turn in an instant. So, to sum up, insta death bad, threat of insta death good. Suspense is a good thing in D&D. Not being able to predict sucess, but going into the adventure anyway is a good thing. Having players that feel a real sense of acomplishment when they pull victory from the seeming jaws of defeat is a good thing. Some of this is lost in a system where the encounters are so "balanced" that you never really worry about losing your character as a consequence of battle. [/QUOTE]

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