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<blockquote data-quote="Zappo" data-source="post: 1408451" data-attributes="member: 633">I'm very curious to find out what 3E lacks that other editions had, but up to now I see nothing. I'm following this thread with interest.I don't get it. There is no &quot;wow&quot; of discovery when you craft an item, whatever the edition. Unless the DM adds some house rules, the item does exactly what you want it to do.Again, I don't understand. In my group, between all the campaigns we played, we had a grand total of three permanent items made. And they were three identical armors, created in the same circumstance. With the high XP cost for making good items, the &quot;optimal adventuring gear&quot; largely comes from buying the items, but this is entirely under the DM's control in any edition.&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe you're talking about the fact that in 2E you needed special components to create magical items. It would be a nice optional rule for 3E, but when I played 2E it only came into play once or twice (and it was quite a headache for the DM). I don't think that's a big part of &quot;the feeling of past editions&quot;.Ok, this is basically the definition of &quot;a problem with the players, not with the system&quot;. IME, 3E is way, way, way more deadly than 2E if the players don't make sure to know what they are up against before charging. The reasons are:&nbsp;- variable ST difficulties. No matter how good your saves, you can't be sure that you need a 2 to save.&nbsp;- much wider range of to-hit, damage, ACs, and special strikes. Try charging an elemental without knowing what it does in melee. &quot;Aw, c'mon, it's made of air, how strong can it be?&quot;.&nbsp;- classed and templated monsters. In 3E, even the classical orc ambush could be a death trap for what you know.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zappo, post: 1408451, member: 633"] I'm very curious to find out what 3E lacks that other editions had, but up to now I see nothing. I'm following this thread with interest.I don't get it. There is no "wow" of discovery when you craft an item, whatever the edition. Unless the DM adds some house rules, the item does exactly what you want it to do.Again, I don't understand. In my group, between all the campaigns we played, we had a grand total of three permanent items made. And they were three identical armors, created in the same circumstance. With the high XP cost for making good items, the "optimal adventuring gear" largely comes from buying the items, but this is entirely under the DM's control in any edition. Maybe you're talking about the fact that in 2E you needed special components to create magical items. It would be a nice optional rule for 3E, but when I played 2E it only came into play once or twice (and it was quite a headache for the DM). I don't think that's a big part of "the feeling of past editions".Ok, this is basically the [i]definition[/i] of "a problem with the players, not with the system". IME, 3E is way, way, [i]way[/i] more deadly than 2E if the players don't make sure to know what they are up against before charging. The reasons are: - variable ST difficulties. No matter how good your saves, you can't be sure that you need a 2 to save. - much wider range of to-hit, damage, ACs, and special strikes. Try charging an elemental without knowing what it does in melee. "Aw, c'mon, it's made of [i]air[/i], how strong can it be?". - classed and templated monsters. In 3E, even the classical orc ambush could be a death trap for what you know. [/QUOTE]

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