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What is 3.0 & 3.5 missing that previous editions had?
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<blockquote data-quote="milotha" data-source="post: 1418023" data-attributes="member: 17122"><p>I agree. I think that a lot of this is the fact that a 12th level character was a lot more powerful in 1/2ed than a 12th level character is in 3.Xed for the following reasons:</p><p></p><p>In 1/2ed, a lot of skills and abilities had no game mechanic associated with them. As a result, if you wanted to try do one of these actions or skills, you simply turned to the DM and said "I attempt X" and a good DM would make a fair ruling as to how that would play out. You could do a lot of things that weren't on your chracter sheet by being creative. If there was no mechanic, you could always make one up. I played with a lot of players that made up character concepts, with GM approval, that involved having skills and abilities that weren't written into the rules. </p><p></p><p>Really in 1/2ed, besides the spell levels, what changed about your character from level to level - Your AC, THAC0, HP, and Saves. I'm certain we all saw 12th level fighters with high HP and really low Saves, THAC0 and AC. There really wasn't much more to being a fighter. (Yeah, you needed a good weapon) , but you were pretty much made.</p><p></p><p>Now in 3.Xed, if you want your character to do X, you have to put points in the X skill. Is this a bad thing? No, but instead of just saying- I have this great character concept of the survivalist who can swim, hunt, fish, climb, etc - now, you have to divide up those small number of skill points into a number of chosen skills. As a result at first level, you can have a character that isn't really good at anything. Yes, there are ways of min/maxing this, but in the end you have a character that can't do a lot of things. This makes the character <strong>seem</strong> less effective. Wow, I'm 12th level and I have a 0 in all these skills. </p><p></p><p>The same is true for the addition of all the feats. Look at 12th level there are still all these things I can't do. In addition, say for a fighter, at 12th level you still can have poor ref and will saves. </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It's just that the flavor of the game has changed. In 3.Xed if you want to do something now, there's probably a skill for it, a mechanic for it, or a feat required, and if you don't have it, you can't do it. Whereas in 1ed/2ed- there were many GMs that would just say - your character can do Y skill. That's reasonable for the concept and class and level. </p><p></p><p>I guess that I think that more rules don't equate with more fun. All these options, and I just feel that the characters in 3.Xed are more limited and more narrowly defined. It's less creativite thinking and more rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="milotha, post: 1418023, member: 17122"] I agree. I think that a lot of this is the fact that a 12th level character was a lot more powerful in 1/2ed than a 12th level character is in 3.Xed for the following reasons: In 1/2ed, a lot of skills and abilities had no game mechanic associated with them. As a result, if you wanted to try do one of these actions or skills, you simply turned to the DM and said "I attempt X" and a good DM would make a fair ruling as to how that would play out. You could do a lot of things that weren't on your chracter sheet by being creative. If there was no mechanic, you could always make one up. I played with a lot of players that made up character concepts, with GM approval, that involved having skills and abilities that weren't written into the rules. Really in 1/2ed, besides the spell levels, what changed about your character from level to level - Your AC, THAC0, HP, and Saves. I'm certain we all saw 12th level fighters with high HP and really low Saves, THAC0 and AC. There really wasn't much more to being a fighter. (Yeah, you needed a good weapon) , but you were pretty much made. Now in 3.Xed, if you want your character to do X, you have to put points in the X skill. Is this a bad thing? No, but instead of just saying- I have this great character concept of the survivalist who can swim, hunt, fish, climb, etc - now, you have to divide up those small number of skill points into a number of chosen skills. As a result at first level, you can have a character that isn't really good at anything. Yes, there are ways of min/maxing this, but in the end you have a character that can't do a lot of things. This makes the character [B]seem[/B] less effective. Wow, I'm 12th level and I have a 0 in all these skills. The same is true for the addition of all the feats. Look at 12th level there are still all these things I can't do. In addition, say for a fighter, at 12th level you still can have poor ref and will saves. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It's just that the flavor of the game has changed. In 3.Xed if you want to do something now, there's probably a skill for it, a mechanic for it, or a feat required, and if you don't have it, you can't do it. Whereas in 1ed/2ed- there were many GMs that would just say - your character can do Y skill. That's reasonable for the concept and class and level. I guess that I think that more rules don't equate with more fun. All these options, and I just feel that the characters in 3.Xed are more limited and more narrowly defined. It's less creativite thinking and more rules. [/QUOTE]
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