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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steenan" data-source="post: 5695055" data-attributes="member: 23240">We are talking about different kinds of focus here. For me, the focus is thematic. It's "what is this game about?". And the game may be about "challenging" in the sense of "presenting obstacles to overcome" - but it definitely does not have to.Another way of looking at it: the focus of the game is what players spend time on, it's where they make choices and have those choices matter. Things outside of the focus should be simplified so that they don't require a lot of attention.It should be clear, in the light of the above, that "focusing on challenging the character" is an oxymoron to me. The character does not make any choices, I do. If something takes a lot of time in the game and does not give me a chance of meaningful input, it's a problem with the system. There is no challenge, there is just time wasted on dice rolling. And if my input matters, it's not "challenging the character".Good rules-heavy games use the character mechanics to channel player's tactical skill. It's the player who is challenged - and the player uses rule-defined tools skillfully to succeed (as opposed to using tools defined by shared setting and genre conventions in rules-light games). But the game does not have to - and should not - present this kind of challenge in everything the characters do. That's where the game's focus comes into play. In focus, game mechanics frames the conflict, sets up obstacles and gives players tools to use. Out of focus, it resolves things in a simple way so that players may quickly get back to what is important. At least, that's how it works in a well-written game.Of course, if the game is not about overcoming obstacles, the whole "challenging" thing does not matter. System still highlights the focus, but it is not tactical; players still make meaningful decisions, but they are not (or, at least, not primarily) about winning. For example, in Dogs in the Vineyard the conflict system focuses the play on deciding what players care for and how far will they go to achieve their goals - typically, it's obvious that characters can get what they want, but the price may be higher than they are ready to accept. In Nobilis, the project system makes plot twists, revelations, complications and partial failures more efficient way to pursue long-term goals than a string of successes - it's in players' best interest to make things interesting instead of finding simplest solutions. And so on.</blockquote>

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