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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7641295" data-attributes="member: 12731">The idea Rogues are better than other classes in killing enemies faster simply isn't true in D&amp;D in general and 5E in particular.If what you want to achieve is a &quot;skulker quickly and silently disposing of isolated foes&quot; you should not just look at Rogues.Not to mention how that likely isn't compatible with the idea of D&amp;D as a group activity.For example, the Assassin subclass might come across as perfect. In actual play, however, we discovered it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as it needs to justify choosing the subclass. The other players simply aren't content staying back and letting the Rogue solo the encounter. And why should they? The point of D&amp;D is to have fun together.The inescapable truth is that the Rogue is not well designed and balanced.It's abilities are still grounded in the &quot;sneaking off and do your own thing&quot; mindset. That mindset is spot on for a NPC catburglar working alone, but every PC works in a party as a team. I expect and demand every ability to work with this in mind, and the Rogue falls short more often than most other classes.The other uncomfortable truth is that the Rogue pays a terrible price for its ability to keep sneak attacking all day long, and it's out-of-combat utility. It also must jump through more hoops than maybe any class to optimize fully (ie gain two sneak attacks per combat round)I would have liked the 5E Rogue class much more if its sneak attack damage were simply doubled (+d6 every level instead of every other level) and the restriction was &quot;once per round&quot; instead of &quot;once per turn&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7641295, member: 12731"] The idea Rogues are better than other classes in killing enemies faster simply isn't true in D&D in general and 5E in particular. If what you want to achieve is a "skulker quickly and silently disposing of isolated foes" you should not just look at Rogues. Not to mention how that likely isn't compatible with the idea of D&D as a group activity. For example, the Assassin subclass might come across as perfect. In actual play, however, we discovered it simply doesn't happen nearly as often as it needs to justify choosing the subclass. The other players simply aren't content staying back and letting the Rogue solo the encounter. And why should they? The point of D&D is to have fun together. The inescapable truth is that the Rogue is not well designed and balanced. It's abilities are still grounded in the "sneaking off and do your own thing" mindset. That mindset is spot on for a NPC catburglar working alone, but every PC works in a party as a team. I expect and demand every ability to work with this in mind, and the Rogue falls short more often than most other classes. The other uncomfortable truth is that the Rogue pays a terrible price for its ability to keep sneak attacking all day long, and it's out-of-combat utility. It also must jump through more hoops than maybe any class to optimize fully (ie gain two sneak attacks per combat round) I would have liked the 5E Rogue class much more if its sneak attack damage were simply doubled (+d6 every level instead of every other level) and the restriction was "once per round" instead of "once per turn". [/QUOTE]

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