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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 2919105" data-attributes="member: 9410">I said:You replied:Well, let's take an example:RangingAll activities having to do with hazardous travel, scouting, scavenging, smuggling, and also outdoors craft, survival in the outdoors, camouflage, concealment, deadfalls, pits, poaching, traps and trapping, etc. are governed by this Ability.  When using this Ability to locate game, a check is made, and if successful, one sort of animal will be discovered, although it might be a predatory sort rather than a purely game animal.   If Hunt Ability is also possessed, the individual adds 10% of that Score to the Ranging Score in regards to checks against this Ability and vice versa.  This Ability can be used to surprise an individual or group if the Avatar employing it knows or suspects the presence of the other(s) and could logically use the Ability at time of encounter.   It can also be used to attempt to avoid being surprised in an encounter situation if the Avatar employing it could logically use it at time of encounter.  The base Score is used, with the GM making situational and Avatar characteristic modifiers according to circumstances.Now... can this character swim?  I would say yes, but as you pointed out:Can they attempt to swim?  I believe (after my pointing this out to the author) that the Quick Start rules now detail which skill bundles do, but from the description of the ranging skill, above, it is a GM call...  Hence my saying:Note the skill description, above, says:"...if the Avatar employing it could logically use it at time of encounter.  The base Score is used, with the GM making situational and Avatar characteristic modifiers according to circumstances."So, in D&D 3.5e, if my PC wants to swim across the creek, I know that the DC is 10, for calm water, 15 in a storm, and I can guess my chances.  In LA, it isn't even a given whether or not my character with Ranging ability even knows HOW to swim, and if so, what his chances are, as it can be modified up or down at the GM's whim.THAT is what I mean when I say "PCs can't do much of ANYTHING without asking the GM (and then their chances are based upon his whim".  Look at the combat modifiers used in the "Forlorn Corners" adventure...  Not listed on the combat table (not given to PCs, as a general rule, although one assumes that a good GM would either grant them, or not use them for the NPC, although, in my experience, modifications to skill were always downward, never to improve it).So, as I said, instead of abilities like "Jump" and "Swim", which are clearly defined, LA characters get so-called "skill bundles" which grant... vague & general abilities, allowing them to do... only what the GM allows them to...  Even then, they are modified as the GM pleases, and the basic 55% best skill can have modifiers from +60 (automatic failure, at that level) to -30 regularly added, at the whim of the GM!The rules for weapons, as printed in the LR4AP, Author's, Premiere, and regular versions, are also WRONG, showing magical weapons adding to Weapons ability, when they really SUBTRACT.  Hence my "the rules are a mess" comment.LA is playable, and the crowd that thinks 3.5e has too many rules, and GMs who want to do whatever they want with their games, without some book of rules telling them what to do, will love LA.  It is designed for them...In my experience, however, they will have trouble finding players satisfied with their interpretations of the vague & general skills, and their arbitrary assignment of modifiers...With a good GM, who has a firm grip upon what can be done with each skill, and consistant modifiers assignment, LA might prove fun, for some.  For those who find such games TOO fast and loose, however, they will quickly grow dissatisfied.I am among the latter!</blockquote>

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