Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9135284" data-attributes="member: 4937">If I can jump into this dispute without hopefully insulting either side, I think both of you are wrong in interesting ways.You have correctly looked at the mechanic and said, &quot;The &quot;Quantum Gear&quot; mechanic is not connected strongly to the imagined situation, since in a real situation either the gear would have been chosen a priori or it wouldn't have.&quot;&nbsp; You have incorrectly made a category error though by asserting that &quot;All mechanics not strongly connected to the imagined situation are narration mechanics&quot; as if the only two options are narration mechanics and simulation mechanics.&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, if we have a rule like &quot;Your gear has to be chosen and on your character sheet before you leave for the adventure&quot; that's strongly a simulation mechanic because that's how it really works.&nbsp; But it's not necessarily the case that the reverse is narration mechanic because it's not clearly the case what the allowing abstract gear is trying to accomplish.&nbsp; My guess is that in most cases such a mechanic is complex and intending to fulfill several needs and aesthetics, most notably convenience and speed of play.&nbsp; There is a fallacy of excluded middle or some such going on here.&nbsp; Mechanics are rarely pure for one goal.&nbsp; By freeing players up from worrying about detailed equipment lists, you're letting the players get on with the game or the story.&nbsp; In general, my guess is that this is a game construct in that we are accepting an abstraction for speed of play that lets us get away from calculating encumbrance and get away from bookkeeping and focus on whatever we think matters.&nbsp; But there is a possibility that the mechanic also has narration or even simulation goals.For example, if everyone in the setting has access to the &quot;Quantum Gear&quot; mechanic, that's probably game mechanics with aesthetics of Fantasy (thinking about gear is not &quot;cool&quot;, just have everything in a virtual back pocket for when you need it).&nbsp;&nbsp; But imagine a situation where you have to spend CharGen resources to get &quot;Quantum Gear&quot; and only characters that are very Smart or very Lucky qualify for this perk.&nbsp; Now we have a situation where the abstraction likely has simulation goals - there exists in the genre of fiction mastermind characters who because of their intelligence are always prepared for the exact situation that transpires.&nbsp; Since these masterminds are significantly smarter than most or all players, we are simulating the genre tropes by giving players a limited resource whereby they can pretend to &quot;The Batman&quot; or whomever. It's not clear to me that &quot;you have the gear you need when you need it&quot; fulfills a story goal or helps create a story.&nbsp; So I wouldn't consider this a strong example of a narration mechanic.&nbsp; This does touch on something I've asserted elsewhere that tends to get people really upset, which is that in my opinion most of the mechanics that Nar games introduced don't actually assist in creating stories but rather only assist in creating scenes, and in fact might actually be working against creating coherent narratives.&nbsp;&nbsp; But I suppose in theory if you had a game where one of the tropes of the genre the game was set in was &quot;all the protagonists are masterminds&quot; (typically a heist game) then giving everyone access to mastermind resources would help fulfill a story goal.&nbsp; I'm thinking for example of &quot;Blades&quot; retcon/flashback mechanics where everyone is allowed to redefine the fiction to avoid having to plan for things the players haven't foreseen.&nbsp; But even then, this seems at least as much motivated by a desire to speed up play than it is by a desire to create good heist stories.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9135284, member: 4937"] If I can jump into this dispute without hopefully insulting either side, I think both of you are wrong in interesting ways. You have correctly looked at the mechanic and said, "The "Quantum Gear" mechanic is not connected strongly to the imagined situation, since in a real situation either the gear would have been chosen a priori or it wouldn't have." You have incorrectly made a category error though by asserting that "All mechanics not strongly connected to the imagined situation are narration mechanics" as if the only two options are narration mechanics and simulation mechanics. Yes, if we have a rule like "Your gear has to be chosen and on your character sheet before you leave for the adventure" that's strongly a simulation mechanic because that's how it really works. But it's not necessarily the case that the reverse is narration mechanic because it's not clearly the case what the allowing abstract gear is trying to accomplish. My guess is that in most cases such a mechanic is complex and intending to fulfill several needs and aesthetics, most notably convenience and speed of play. There is a fallacy of excluded middle or some such going on here. Mechanics are rarely pure for one goal. By freeing players up from worrying about detailed equipment lists, you're letting the players get on with the game or the story. In general, my guess is that this is a game construct in that we are accepting an abstraction for speed of play that lets us get away from calculating encumbrance and get away from bookkeeping and focus on whatever we think matters. But there is a possibility that the mechanic also has narration or even simulation goals. For example, if everyone in the setting has access to the "Quantum Gear" mechanic, that's probably game mechanics with aesthetics of Fantasy (thinking about gear is not "cool", just have everything in a virtual back pocket for when you need it). But imagine a situation where you have to spend CharGen resources to get "Quantum Gear" and only characters that are very Smart or very Lucky qualify for this perk. Now we have a situation where the abstraction likely has simulation goals - there exists in the genre of fiction mastermind characters who because of their intelligence are always prepared for the exact situation that transpires. Since these masterminds are significantly smarter than most or all players, we are simulating the genre tropes by giving players a limited resource whereby they can pretend to "The Batman" or whomever. It's not clear to me that "you have the gear you need when you need it" fulfills a story goal or helps create a story. So I wouldn't consider this a strong example of a narration mechanic. This does touch on something I've asserted elsewhere that tends to get people really upset, which is that in my opinion most of the mechanics that Nar games introduced don't actually assist in creating stories but rather only assist in creating scenes, and in fact might actually be working against creating coherent narratives. But I suppose in theory if you had a game where one of the tropes of the genre the game was set in was "all the protagonists are masterminds" (typically a heist game) then giving everyone access to mastermind resources would help fulfill a story goal. I'm thinking for example of "Blades" retcon/flashback mechanics where everyone is allowed to redefine the fiction to avoid having to plan for things the players haven't foreseen. But even then, this seems at least as much motivated by a desire to speed up play than it is by a desire to create good heist stories. [/QUOTE]

Verification