Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is a Social challenge, anyways?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8949687" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>The funny thing is that for many combat isn't very exciting in the attack roll (the d20) by itself. It is fairly well established that most PC will hit 65% of the time (+/-5%). It is actually somewhat predictable, which is why creating encounters to a particular difficulty isn't too hard. What makes combat exciting is when those chances drop significantly and hitting becomes rarer OR when the low stakes pile up enough that further loss (or gain) becomes more meaningful. When you have 50 hp, 5 damage isn't a big deal; but when you are down to 10 hp, 5 damage suddenly becomes much more meaningful.</p><p></p><p>Because the stakes are (at least potentially) life or death, a single roll would be more exciting simply because the point of failure would likely be ultimate--ending the game for that PC in all likelihood.</p><p></p><p>How important does "talking your way past the guard" become? Is it life or death? Not likely. If talking doesn't work, intimidating might, failing that direct force or finding some other elusive way (sneaking or another path) works typically.</p><p></p><p>So, in essence, it can be like combat. First "attack" is Charisma (Persuasion) to "talk your way by the guard." If that fails (a miss), you attack with Charisma (Intimidation), then perhaps (failing that as well) leave and try Dexterity (Stealth). Most combat in 5E is often resolved in 2-4 rounds, so those would be your three "rounds" for the social challenge. The greatest difference is at any point, success can "end the social combat" with victory for the PC. Failure at all stages would be tantamount to defeat in the social combat (with the PC being arrested perhaps?).</p><p></p><p>Many 5E threads have talked about the problem with the swinginess of the d20 when it comes to ability checks because of it's single-roll resolution system, but what I think often people fail to understand is that "failure" in one roll doesn't necessarily mean failure in the social encounter. We know failing an ability check could represent "success at a cost or with a setback" or simply failure to make progress, in which case you can try again.</p><p></p><p>[<em>In my own game, when you fail at an ability check (or repeated saving throw), the DC increases by 1. If the DC gets to a point where even a natural 20 fails, you fail. There are no further attempts and no success at a failure possible. If at any point, you fail by 1 or 2, then it could be success at a cost or with a setback.</em>]</p><p></p><p>You can elaborate further on the first "attack" of Charisma (Persuasion) in the example above by implementing a 3-strikes policy, similar to death saves. Something like if you win three contested checks against the guard, you talk your way past. If the guard wins, you have to try a new tactic (such as Intimidation), with the chance of another win by getting three successes before three failures. You could even implement a natural 20 counts as "critical" and is an automatic win, while a 1 could count as two failures (a la the <em>death save</em> concept).</p><p></p><p>BUT the issue (IMO anyway) with things like this is it is just a bunch of dice rolls. I would prefer players role-play the social encounters, and leave the "roll-playing" to the combat. Yes, you could expand features to enhance these rolls just like we do in combat if you wanted to, and then you can spend an hour on a social challenge instead of a combat encounter and award XP for it as well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8949687, member: 6987520"] The funny thing is that for many combat isn't very exciting in the attack roll (the d20) by itself. It is fairly well established that most PC will hit 65% of the time (+/-5%). It is actually somewhat predictable, which is why creating encounters to a particular difficulty isn't too hard. What makes combat exciting is when those chances drop significantly and hitting becomes rarer OR when the low stakes pile up enough that further loss (or gain) becomes more meaningful. When you have 50 hp, 5 damage isn't a big deal; but when you are down to 10 hp, 5 damage suddenly becomes much more meaningful. Because the stakes are (at least potentially) life or death, a single roll would be more exciting simply because the point of failure would likely be ultimate--ending the game for that PC in all likelihood. How important does "talking your way past the guard" become? Is it life or death? Not likely. If talking doesn't work, intimidating might, failing that direct force or finding some other elusive way (sneaking or another path) works typically. So, in essence, it can be like combat. First "attack" is Charisma (Persuasion) to "talk your way by the guard." If that fails (a miss), you attack with Charisma (Intimidation), then perhaps (failing that as well) leave and try Dexterity (Stealth). Most combat in 5E is often resolved in 2-4 rounds, so those would be your three "rounds" for the social challenge. The greatest difference is at any point, success can "end the social combat" with victory for the PC. Failure at all stages would be tantamount to defeat in the social combat (with the PC being arrested perhaps?). Many 5E threads have talked about the problem with the swinginess of the d20 when it comes to ability checks because of it's single-roll resolution system, but what I think often people fail to understand is that "failure" in one roll doesn't necessarily mean failure in the social encounter. We know failing an ability check could represent "success at a cost or with a setback" or simply failure to make progress, in which case you can try again. [[I]In my own game, when you fail at an ability check (or repeated saving throw), the DC increases by 1. If the DC gets to a point where even a natural 20 fails, you fail. There are no further attempts and no success at a failure possible. If at any point, you fail by 1 or 2, then it could be success at a cost or with a setback.[/I]] You can elaborate further on the first "attack" of Charisma (Persuasion) in the example above by implementing a 3-strikes policy, similar to death saves. Something like if you win three contested checks against the guard, you talk your way past. If the guard wins, you have to try a new tactic (such as Intimidation), with the chance of another win by getting three successes before three failures. You could even implement a natural 20 counts as "critical" and is an automatic win, while a 1 could count as two failures (a la the [I]death save[/I] concept). BUT the issue (IMO anyway) with things like this is it is just a bunch of dice rolls. I would prefer players role-play the social encounters, and leave the "roll-playing" to the combat. Yes, you could expand features to enhance these rolls just like we do in combat if you wanted to, and then you can spend an hour on a social challenge instead of a combat encounter and award XP for it as well. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What is a Social challenge, anyways?
Top